Movement above 50 mm/s loud



  • Hi,

    Since I have my hypercube Evolution running, It is very loud. Today I tested the Motors without the and here are my results :

    G1 X350 Y0 and back = fine
    G1 X0 Y350 and back = fine
    G1 X350 Y350 and back = X Motor (drive 0) loud (y not moving)

    Change the current between 600 and 1200 doesnt not have great impact.

    Why the X motor is so loud in diagonal movement, remember not Belt installed, only pulley in them. Thanks


  • administrators

    Is the X motor moving correctly? Perhaps only one phase of the motor is being energised.



  • The other diagonale is the same, loud too.
    So from 0 350 to 350 0 is loud too, but the y Motor.

    Every movement is correct, just to loud.

    Is it normal that in diagonal movement one motor is louder?


  • administrators

    Are the motors moving correctly?



  • Yes, I can do fine prints but the printer is very loud on some movements.

    The esteps are correct and everything Else too.
    A few hours before I changed to other stepper motors.

    The movement is fine!

    Are the diagonal movements louder than straigt ones? It is weird3, because when 2 Motors running it is quiet....


  • administrators

    Is the amount of noise very dependent on speed? When doing diagonal movement, the motor is moving faster than when both motors are moving to produce X or Y motion. Perhaps at that speed you are hitting mid band resonance.



  • To be clear, the Belt is not installed. The motor is mounted and only the pulley is on the Motor, so it cannot be a resonance. The Sound of the turning motors is loud, when only 1 is running.

    All tests here were made without Belt installed.
    The speed is always the same.

    The speed has an affect. BUT all above 50 mm/s seconds is loud... 60 like 150....



  • You are right, it is the speed.

    Movement with 50 mm/s is quiet. Movement with 60 mm/s and all above is louder 😞

    Maybe the Stepper Driver are broken?


  • administrators

    Have you tried using higher microstepping?

    Please post your config.g file.



  • I will post my config.g in the evening, I'm using 128 microsteps atm.


  • administrators

    @hevilp said in Movement above 50 mm/s loud:

    To be clear, the Belt is not installed. The motor is mounted and only the pulley is on the Motor, so it cannot be a resonance. The Sound of the turning motors is loud, when only 1 is running.

    Actually it can still be resonance, because the elasticity of the magnetic field and the rotor inertia of the motor combined to give a resonance. If you can tell me the rotor inertia, rated current, holding torque, step angle and actual current for your motor then I can work it out.



  • @dc42 said in Movement above 50 mm/s loud:

    Actually it can still be resonance, because the elasticity of the magnetic field and the rotor inertia of the motor combined to give a resonance. If you can tell me the rotor inertia, rated current, holding torque, step angle and actual current for your motor then I can work it out.

    It should be all in the datasheet:

    https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/download/17HS19-2004S1.pdf

    But I have to say, I used other motors before, where the printer was loud, too.
    I have to check them running, without the belts, too.

    I changed the motors yesterday but the test without the belt I only did on the motors from stepper online.


  • administrators

    For a 200-step stepper motor with holding torque H, the spring constant (in Nm/radian) at full rated current is 25 * H/pi which for that motor is 25 * 0.59/pi = 4.7Nm/radian. The rotor inertia is 83 gcm^2 which is 83e-7 kgm^2. So the resonant frequency is f = (1/(2p)) * sqrt(k/I) = sqrt(4.7/83e-7)/(2pi) = 120Hz.

    In practice it will be lower than this, because we rarely run the motors at peak rated current and because holding torque is normally specified with both phases energised rather than one. This means that the motor will be ;less stiff than 4.7Nm/radian. So I would expect the resonant frequency to be about 75-100Hz, if I have got the above calculations right

    If the motor is well-made then the primary reason that the resonance will be excited should be be because not all microsteps are equal (how unequal they are depends on the design of the motor). So the worst speed will be when the frequency of full steps matches the resonant frequency. You haven't told us your steps/mm, but as an example if you have 80 steps/mm @ x16 microstepping, that's 5 full steps/mm, so a resonance at 80Hz would be excited at a movement speed of (80/5) = 18mm/sec.

    OTOH if the main cause of the resonance is that the poles of the motor are inaccurate, or the stepper motor coils are not balanced, then the resonance will be excited by movements of four full steps, which would make the worst speed about 64mm/sec.

    How noisy is the motor at 80 to 100 mm/sec speed?



  • ; Drives
    M569 P0 S0 ; Drive 0 -> X goes backwards
    M569 P1 S0 ; Drive 1 -> Y goes backwards
    M569 P2 S1 ; Drive 2 -> Z goes backwards
    M569 P3 S0 ; Drive 3 -> E0 goes forwards
    M569 P4 S0 ; Drive 4 -> E1 goes forwards
    M350 X256 Y256 Z256 E256 I0 S1 ; Configure microstepping with interpolation
    M92 X1280 Y1280 Z25600 E13045 ; Set steps per mm
    M566 X900 Y900 Z12 E600 ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
    M203 X18000 Y18000 Z300 E6000 ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
    M201 X3000 Y3000 Z250 E600 ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
    M204 P500 T3000
    M906 X600 Y600 Z600 E700 I30 ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
    M84 S120 ; Set idle timeout





  • I can't really see from the video, but is that a corexy configuration? This would explain why only one motor moves for a 45 degree diagonal at least, but then both motors should move for straight X or Y movement.

    It would certainly be worth checking that you are getting both sets of coils energized on your motors, and that your wire colours are consistent. Do you have a multimeter that can measure inductance?

    Edit:

    just saw, 1280 steps/mm? I suppose that you can do that with 256X microstepping, but is that actually called for? I'd be tempted to see if "The road greater travelled" IE: set microstepping to 16X (With 256X interpolation) and 80steps/mm was quieter.



  • @supraguy I will try 16 Microsteps with Interpolation.

    Why the color of the spools need to be consistent?
    I thought it is just enough to have the right pairs, it isnt?


  • administrators

    @hevilp said in Movement above 50 mm/s loud:

    I thought it is just enough to have the right pairs, it isnt?

    Yes you just need the right pairs.



  • Yes, you just need the right pairs, so I did mean to make sure that they're in the same order at both connectors.

    Your motors have 6 wire connectors, and you should have wires at pins 1, 3, 4, and 6. They should go to the 4 wire motor connector on the Duet in the same order.


  • administrators

    @supraguy said in Movement above 50 mm/s loud:

    Your motors have 6 wire connectors, and you should have wires at pins 1, 3, 4, and 6. They should go to the 4 wire motor connector on the Duet in the same order.

    Unfortunately there are at least 2 different wiring schemes for motors with 6-pin JST connectors on them, so the above isn't necessarily correct.


 

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