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    Movement above 50 mm/s loud

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    • dc42undefined
      dc42 administrators @hevilp
      last edited by

      @hevilp said in Movement above 50 mm/s loud:

      To be clear, the Belt is not installed. The motor is mounted and only the pulley is on the Motor, so it cannot be a resonance. The Sound of the turning motors is loud, when only 1 is running.

      Actually it can still be resonance, because the elasticity of the magnetic field and the rotor inertia of the motor combined to give a resonance. If you can tell me the rotor inertia, rated current, holding torque, step angle and actual current for your motor then I can work it out.

      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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      • hevilpundefined
        hevilp
        last edited by hevilp

        @dc42 said in Movement above 50 mm/s loud:

        Actually it can still be resonance, because the elasticity of the magnetic field and the rotor inertia of the motor combined to give a resonance. If you can tell me the rotor inertia, rated current, holding torque, step angle and actual current for your motor then I can work it out.

        It should be all in the datasheet:

        https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/download/17HS19-2004S1.pdf

        But I have to say, I used other motors before, where the printer was loud, too.
        I have to check them running, without the belts, too.

        I changed the motors yesterday but the test without the belt I only did on the motors from stepper online.

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        • dc42undefined
          dc42 administrators
          last edited by

          For a 200-step stepper motor with holding torque H, the spring constant (in Nm/radian) at full rated current is 25 * H/pi which for that motor is 25 * 0.59/pi = 4.7Nm/radian. The rotor inertia is 83 gcm^2 which is 83e-7 kgm^2. So the resonant frequency is f = (1/(2p)) * sqrt(k/I) = sqrt(4.7/83e-7)/(2pi) = 120Hz.

          In practice it will be lower than this, because we rarely run the motors at peak rated current and because holding torque is normally specified with both phases energised rather than one. This means that the motor will be ;less stiff than 4.7Nm/radian. So I would expect the resonant frequency to be about 75-100Hz, if I have got the above calculations right

          If the motor is well-made then the primary reason that the resonance will be excited should be be because not all microsteps are equal (how unequal they are depends on the design of the motor). So the worst speed will be when the frequency of full steps matches the resonant frequency. You haven't told us your steps/mm, but as an example if you have 80 steps/mm @ x16 microstepping, that's 5 full steps/mm, so a resonance at 80Hz would be excited at a movement speed of (80/5) = 18mm/sec.

          OTOH if the main cause of the resonance is that the poles of the motor are inaccurate, or the stepper motor coils are not balanced, then the resonance will be excited by movements of four full steps, which would make the worst speed about 64mm/sec.

          How noisy is the motor at 80 to 100 mm/sec speed?

          Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
          Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
          http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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          • hevilpundefined
            hevilp
            last edited by

            ; Drives
            M569 P0 S0 ; Drive 0 -> X goes backwards
            M569 P1 S0 ; Drive 1 -> Y goes backwards
            M569 P2 S1 ; Drive 2 -> Z goes backwards
            M569 P3 S0 ; Drive 3 -> E0 goes forwards
            M569 P4 S0 ; Drive 4 -> E1 goes forwards
            M350 X256 Y256 Z256 E256 I0 S1 ; Configure microstepping with interpolation
            M92 X1280 Y1280 Z25600 E13045 ; Set steps per mm
            M566 X900 Y900 Z12 E600 ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
            M203 X18000 Y18000 Z300 E6000 ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
            M201 X3000 Y3000 Z250 E600 ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
            M204 P500 T3000
            M906 X600 Y600 Z600 E700 I30 ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
            M84 S120 ; Set idle timeout

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            • hevilpundefined
              hevilp
              last edited by

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdYzRrFHQts

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP8tJOAL6FM

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAPBxa4VE

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLi-jRb4IOE

              1000, 3000, 6000 and 12000 mm/s, I dunno the order ^^

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              • SupraGuyundefined
                SupraGuy @hevilp
                last edited by SupraGuy

                I can't really see from the video, but is that a corexy configuration? This would explain why only one motor moves for a 45 degree diagonal at least, but then both motors should move for straight X or Y movement.

                It would certainly be worth checking that you are getting both sets of coils energized on your motors, and that your wire colours are consistent. Do you have a multimeter that can measure inductance?

                Edit:

                just saw, 1280 steps/mm? I suppose that you can do that with 256X microstepping, but is that actually called for? I'd be tempted to see if "The road greater travelled" IE: set microstepping to 16X (With 256X interpolation) and 80steps/mm was quieter.

                Lead screw driven printer, powered by Duet 2 Wifi
                MPCNC powered by Duet 2 Wifi
                CoreXY printer driven by Duet 3 6HC
                LowRider CNC powered by Duet 2 Wifi

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                • hevilpundefined
                  hevilp @SupraGuy
                  last edited by

                  @supraguy I will try 16 Microsteps with Interpolation.

                  Why the color of the spools need to be consistent?
                  I thought it is just enough to have the right pairs, it isnt?

                  dc42undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • dc42undefined
                    dc42 administrators @hevilp
                    last edited by

                    @hevilp said in Movement above 50 mm/s loud:

                    I thought it is just enough to have the right pairs, it isnt?

                    Yes you just need the right pairs.

                    Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                    Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                    http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                    • SupraGuyundefined
                      SupraGuy
                      last edited by

                      Yes, you just need the right pairs, so I did mean to make sure that they're in the same order at both connectors.

                      Your motors have 6 wire connectors, and you should have wires at pins 1, 3, 4, and 6. They should go to the 4 wire motor connector on the Duet in the same order.

                      Lead screw driven printer, powered by Duet 2 Wifi
                      MPCNC powered by Duet 2 Wifi
                      CoreXY printer driven by Duet 3 6HC
                      LowRider CNC powered by Duet 2 Wifi

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                      • dc42undefined
                        dc42 administrators @SupraGuy
                        last edited by

                        @supraguy said in Movement above 50 mm/s loud:

                        Your motors have 6 wire connectors, and you should have wires at pins 1, 3, 4, and 6. They should go to the 4 wire motor connector on the Duet in the same order.

                        Unfortunately there are at least 2 different wiring schemes for motors with 6-pin JST connectors on them, so the above isn't necessarily correct.

                        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                        • SupraGuyundefined
                          SupraGuy
                          last edited by

                          I'll keep that in mind. I have only encountered the 6 wire connectors that work as I described. Thanks!

                          Lead screw driven printer, powered by Duet 2 Wifi
                          MPCNC powered by Duet 2 Wifi
                          CoreXY printer driven by Duet 3 6HC
                          LowRider CNC powered by Duet 2 Wifi

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                          • dc42undefined
                            dc42 administrators
                            last edited by

                            The other pinout I have come across is 1-4, 3-6. All 4 motors on my Ormerod use this pinout.

                            Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                            Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                            http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                            • hevilpundefined
                              hevilp
                              last edited by

                              I'm right, when I say, the motor is turning right, I connected all right?

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                              • dc42undefined
                                dc42 administrators @hevilp
                                last edited by

                                @hevilp said in Movement above 50 mm/s loud:

                                I'm right, when I say, the motor is turning right, I connected all right?

                                If you are able to move the motor in a controlled way in both directions, then you have connected it correctly.

                                Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                                • hevilpundefined
                                  hevilp
                                  last edited by

                                  Okay,

                                  its fine than. I think its nothing with the duet. Speeds above 50 mm/s does stutter, rattle, shaking on the X-axe - carriage and I'm not able to figure it out. It was with rods and now with linear rails, too.

                                  On the video you cannot real hear how loud it is, anyway:
                                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id_A0d7HXlw

                                  Just not usable above 50 mm/s, I'm happy with any help here, the printer is jsut garbage with the sounds.

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