Titan Clicking...should I buy a Bondtech extruder?



  • Hi there,

    In the process of configuration I have noticed that there is a serious amount of clicking comming from the E3D official Titan extruder. I have dismantled and resented this extruder numerous times...more than 25 ... at least. My wife is fed up of hearing about the failure of the extruder and even offered the money for a replacement:)

    Is Bondtech any better? Will it work with the Duet3D Ethernet? Can I fix the Titan? Should I try?

    Any help will be appreciated ... more by my wife perhaps πŸ˜‰

    Best,

    Andy



  • @tef9 said in Titan Clicking...should I buy a Bondtech extruder?:

    Hi there,

    In the process of configuration I have noticed that there is a serious amount of clicking comming from the E3D official Titan extruder. I have dismantled and resented this extruder numerous times...more than 25 ... at least. My wife is fed up of hearing about the failure of the extruder and even offered the money for a replacement:)

    Is Bondtech any better? Will it work with the Duet3D Ethernet? Can I fix the Titan? Should I try?

    Any help will be appreciated ... more by my wife perhaps πŸ˜‰

    Best,

    Andy

    Yes - buy the Bondtech.



  • I noticed a visible improvement in the quality of my prints when I swapped the Titan for a Bondtech BMG. And, of course, the BMG doesn't go clack, clack, like the Titan does.



  • Thanks for the swift response- which Bondtech should I go for as there is QR and BMG, I am using the Bowden setup.

    Best,

    Andy



  • @tef9 said in Titan Clicking...should I buy a Bondtech extruder?:

    Thanks for the swift response- which Bondtech should I go for as there is QR and BMG, I am using the Bowden setup.

    Best,

    Andy

    The BMG is a newer improved and lighter version of the QR

    BTW, I use 5 of them on my 5 colour printer (and I used to have Titans before that).



  • I had same problem, after getting this : https://e3d-online.com/titan-fix-kit-bearings-lid all is good now.



  • @deckingman the qr is aimed more at long bowden setups as it has more power the bmg is better suited to direct drive or short bowden setups



  • Hi,

    So I have the Tevo Little Monster with about 600mm of tube, would the BMG be ok?

    Best,

    Andy



  • That's the same setup that I am using fine, I have a 2nd Bondtech BMG a few months old if interested PM me.



  • @monster-delta said in Titan Clicking...should I buy a Bondtech extruder?:

    @deckingman the qr is aimed more at long bowden setups as it has more power the bmg is better suited to direct drive or short bowden setups

    The power comes from the motors. IIRC, the QR happens to use a Nema17 with integrated 5:1 gearbox whilst the BMG has a more optimum (IMO) 3:1 gearing. So granted, in that respect a QR would have more "pushing force" than a BMG with the same size motor. But using a Nema 17 with reasonable torque will more than adequately cope with long Bowden tubes.

    Either one will cope better than a Titan because they both use the same dual drive principle.



  • I just wish bondtech had a more integrated option like the Titan Aero.



  • The Titan has some difficult bearing alignments and sliding fits, and the idler is cantilevered off the stepper shaft. If anything is out of place it will start to skip.

    As well, if you apply too much force to the bearings during assembly it will indent the raceways and grind itself to pieces. Its best to locktight that screw and stop tightening as soon as it makes contact with the lid.

    The Titan is a very light and compact design when it works, but they got a little too clever.



  • @tef9 What is making it click? Is the motor skipping or is there some mechanical issue?



  • @mrehorstdmd It’s the filament being ground, which then does not move 😞



  • @tef9 That shouldn't happen. There's something wrong with your setup- the nozzle is partially blocked, or maybe the temperature is too low, or maybe motor current is too low. Does the hot-end have a cooling fan and is it running all the time? What size nozzle? At what layer thickness do you print? Bowden tube or direct?

    What motor are you using? Grinding filament (carving divots in it) should not happen, ever. The pinch roller tension should cause the drive gear to bite deeply enough into the filament that the motor will skip steps before it chews up the filament. If your Titan is carving divots into the filament, increase the pinch roller pressure. If it keeps carving divots even at high pinch roller pressure, turn the motor current down to reduce the torque and stop the chewing, and then look at the hot-end for the reason why it needs so much torque to push the filament through it.

    Titans are not perfect for several reasons but usually work well and reliably. The BMG fixes the mechanical problems of the Titan but comes with a couple of its own.



  • I would bet that you have one or more failed bearings.



  • Mine is/was a somewhat unusual usage case in that with a mixing hot end, it is necessary to retract all filaments concurrently, even those that aren't moving forward. So, when I printed this for example, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zXkNvqrDbA&t=101s by the time the last filament starts to move forward, it has undergone in excess of 7,000 retract and un-retract cycles. That is to say, the same section of filament has been retracted and un-retrcated more than 7,000 times and even with the lightest possible tension, the Titan would grind right through the filament. I then did an evaluation of both the Titan and the Bondtech BMG using an extreme torture test to simulate this retract/unretract scenario. https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/2018/05/11/bondtech-bmg-vs-e3d-titan-extreme-retraction-torture-test/.

    Under these conditions, the Titan ground completely through the filament after about 7,000 cycles whereas the BMG continued beyond 23,000 cycles.

    Now that is an extreme test and most users won't experience the sort of problem that I had. However, for my particular usage case, changing to BMGs solved all my problems.

    But as an aside, although the Titan is fine extruder, compared to the Bondtceh BMG it is a PITA to fit and to adjust so that the gears mesh properly. Oh, and the two pictures of the insides of both extruders that I posted at the end of my blog post tell a bit more of the story ...



  • BMG just works. I had problems with the titan too. BMG is a much better design with the gears and drive pushing the filament. Some people seem to get lucky with the titan, but after switching to the BMG I'd never use anything else.



  • i was going to get BMG, but went with the new Dyze Pro GT setup and OMG.....its incredily good although $300 the hotend can print nearly anything and can run at 500C....i totally love it and performs much better than E3D by far



  • All,

    Thank you all for the replys, I have bought a Bondtech but also a temp gun to see what's happening at the hot end...I don't think its bad bearings as I bought the Titan in Oct 2018...Either way I have been given a lot to think about and try, so I will get back to you after I have had a chance to play πŸ™‚

    My set-up is a Tevo Little monster completely overhauled electronically...So I am interested in a Bowden set-up.

    Best,

    Andy


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