Wanhao Duplicator D6, Duet transform.
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Hi,
From previous post, have you see I am searching the one printer for very low height layers, yours recommendations are a Delta printer... But, I have see this model, Wanhao Duplicator D6 and a clone of Monoprice....
I have see the wiring to the estruder... Seems very packed, and the questions are:
- These printers, can be modified, with Duet Board?
- Someone has experience with this printer?
- Do you see factible 0.02 layer height in description of these printers?
Thanks
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I think its possible, from what I have seen of this printer there shouldnt be any proprietary parts in there that would hinder you to retrofit a duet on to the printer.
However should you? is a different question. First of all the D6 is 2-3 years old (makermuses review is from 2016) and second its a budget printer and achieving 0.2 layer heights is not a thing to do with a budget machine.
If you really need those layer heights, you probably spent your money better on a resin machine.
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@sungod3k He wants 0.02 layer heights - not 0.2.
@peirof Your biggest problem is going to be accurately extruding the tiny amounts of filament that will be needed with those layer heights, not least of which is the tiny nozzle that you'll need to use as well. You'll need to use high gearing on the extruder drive to obtain the desired resolution but this gearing will have to have zero backlash.
Do the maths. You'll need something like a 0.1mm nozzle. This will have an area of around 0.008 mm^2. But the area of the incoming filament (if it's 1.75mm) diameter is about 0.88mm^2. So the ratio of area of the incoming filament to the outgoing filament is around 100:1. Then when you take the low layer height into account as well, things become even worse. A 1mm long bead, 0.1mm wide x 0.02 high will have a volume of roughly 0.0016mm^3. So if you divide that by the area of the incoming filament, it means that it will need to move forward by 0.0018 mm to obtain that 1mm long extruded bead. If you use say a 0.9 degree motor, with something like a Bondtech BMG or E3D Titan extruder with 3:1 gearing, then the steps per mm at 16X will be roughly 800. So 1 micro step will give you about 0.0013 mm of movement which is bit less than you want. But 2 micro steps will give you about 0.0026 mm which is far too much. So you'll have to use very high micro-stepping, even with a 0.9 degree motor. Personally, I wouldn't want to rely on micro-stepping for positional accuracy but that's what you'll have to do, unless you use very high gearing but that in itself brings other problems.
I have serious doubts that FDM printing is at all suitable for what you want to do - regardless of what machine you choose. (Unless you can get hold of filament that is say 0.1mm diameter to start with).
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Hi,
@deckingman until a few days ago ... I also thought that those thin layers could not be achieved with an Fdm printer ... but I've seen models, not many, that advertise such thin layers ... there are not many that reach 0.02, it's more common 0.05, which I think would be enough for me. But these printers announce it ... One Dlp, yes ... but the process is not comfortable .... and just as the filament is cheap resin, no.
Another idea... Is. @dc42, say that delta printer can archive the movement resolution... Buy a small cheap delta printer, and modify. How:
- Cheap delta
- 4 steppers 0.9 nema 17, not sure but think I have se 0.45 deg nema 17 motors
- duet
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- 1/ 0.2 nozzle
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@peirof IMO, it's not the positional movement resolution that will be the problem, but the extrusion resolution. A bit like trying to dispense a single drop of liquid from a 10 litre bucket by tipping the bucket. Not impossible but very difficult.
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@deckingman it's posible there is gear reducer for stepper?
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BMG has an extruder with a 5:1 ratio. https://www.bondtech.se/en/product/qr/
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@peirof said in Wanhao Duplicator D6, Duet transform.:
@deckingman it's posible there is gear reducer for stepper?
Possibly. If you paired it with something like and E3dD Titan or Bondtech BMG which have 3:1 gearing then you'd have 15:1. Or you could try this this https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/nema-14-stepper-motor-bipolar-l33mm-w-gear-raio-1001-planetary-gearbox-14hs13-0804s-pg100.html
Who knows? Providing there isn't any backlash, it would possibly give you the resolution you need. However you do it, you'll need a very high number of steps per mm and bearing in mind the 200 kHz step pulse frequency limit of the Duet board, you'll be limited on speed. You should be OK for printing but retraction might be problematic. Then again, provided you print slowly (which you will have to do in any case) you might not need much (if any) retraction. Who knows?
A 0.1mm nozzle with 0.02mm layer height will require such tiny amounts of filament that I don't think anyone can predict what sort of issues you might have.
For sure, don't try it with PLA. The throughput of filament will be so slow that it will be held at print temperature for too long, so it will hydrolyse (get more and more runny or less and less viscous) with time.
You'll also need to fit some sort of sponge or filter on the filament as it enters the hot end, as even the tiniest spec of foreign matter will block the nozzle (and clearing a blocked 0.1mm diameter nozzle won't be easy either).
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I have read about "magic layer height"... that the height of layer coincides with a step of the motor, to that it is small ... with a layer of 0.08, better finishes can be obtained ... than with a layer 0.05, if it does not coincide with the step of the motor ... This is true.
