Duet3D Logo Duet3D
    • Tags
    • Documentation
    • Order
    • Register
    • Login
    1. Home
    2. TimTom
    • Profile
    • Following 0
    • Followers 0
    • Topics 4
    • Posts 39
    • Best 3
    • Controversial 0
    • Groups 0

    TimTom

    @TimTom

    Prusa MK3S, Voron 2.4 350 build

    4
    Reputation
    1
    Profile views
    39
    Posts
    0
    Followers
    0
    Following
    Joined Last Online
    Location Berlin

    TimTom Unfollow Follow

    Best posts made by TimTom

    • RE: Voron Corexy weired x/y movement

      OK shame on me!
      While I wanted to replace the x/y motors I detected that the belt was misguided and rubbing on plastic!

      So please excuse my "wrongly" reported issue.

      Bear with me, I had so many external issues during the build (badly soldered hall effect platines, badly soldered extruder pcb's, broken duet board, wrongly configured wiring loom).
      Everything took me several hours to identify (I ordered all parts in Europe, with the hope to avoid Chinese quality issues - wrong assumption).

      After days of troubleshooting I stopped to challenge my own work, sorry for that.

      posted in Duet Hardware and wiring
      TimTomundefined
      TimTom
    • RE: print slows down mid print

      @phaedrux @dc42 @gloomyandy
      I believe I found the Issue - small volume size lead to massive fragementation resulting in horrible SD-card performance.

      In preparation for the "new cards" I took out the stock card and found out that the 8 GB card only has a 256 MB partition (so only 256 MB were usable).

      Being curious I reformatted the card to it's full capacity and ran the Speed tests M122 P104 again, surprise, surprise speed tests dramatically improved:

      with 256 MB partition (mostlikely massivly fragmented):
      a1212489-d120-4211-984c-5fb179213a92-image.png

      with 8GB partition:
      1e424497-7eff-498a-ba48-110ad4e96cb7-image.png

      Read speed nearly trippled!

      Trying it again and BAM issue solved! - With the very same SD-Card!!!!

      04609216-b1df-4052-ad15-715fff4a1b52-image.png

      My assumptions and maybe what might cause this:

      • with 256 MB the "volume" is pretty full as my gcode+firmware files already occupied ~200 MB so not a lot of "free space"
      • doing a several firmware updates and lots of configuration changes, deleting and uploading always performs writes to the SD-card
      • FAT32 tends to fragment much more than other more modern filesystems
      • SD-card interface of Duet is not comparable with a high-tech PCIe SSD.

      Bottom line the small volume got highly fragmented (explanation see below), resulting in super bad performance.
      Unfortunatly I did not check the SD-card for fragmentation prior deleting, so I have no "proof".

      Suggestion for Duet
      I assume the small volume size of 256 GB is a result of historic artifact, because that allows to use any size of SD-card (down to 256 MB) in the production process. My humble suggestion would be

      • to change the manufacturing process to either start with lager volumes (e.g. 4 GB or 8 GB) or to make this a dynamic process, automatically sizing the partition/volume to the maximum available space (maybe add a cap at 32 GB to take FAT32 limit into account).
      • for existing customers and new customers receiving such cards, I'd put a clear Note about this topic in the documentation (something like "Consider reformating your SD-card to maximum capacity).

      *Fragmentation explained by Roland (music instruments) -
      When an SD card recorder stores new files, it squeezes them into any bits of space it can find. As a result, the data winds up scattered all over the hard drive. When the data from one song file, for example, is stored in many locations within the card memory, the card is said to be fragmented. When the recorder plays back a file from a fragmented card, it has to grab a little piece from here, another piece from there and so on. This is much harder than playing one continuous chunk of data from a single card location. This can slow things down unacceptably and lead to errors during playback, recording and/or any other function in the recorder.

      Fragmentation is a naturally occurring process for a card used with any computer or recording device. SD cards that record audio are especially prone to fragmentation due to the start-and-stop nature of recording.

      We recommend backing up all of your data and then initializing the SD card to clear out this normal fragmentation. To avoid receiving errors and/or problems, initialize the card a couple of times a year.. The following steps will guide you through the Card Backup, Card Initialize and Card Recover procedures:*

      posted in Beta Firmware
      TimTomundefined
      TimTom
    • RE: Duet 3 Mini5 Wifi crashes after 1-2 min on PSU

      @fcwilt
      Thanks for the hint, I was still in the process in ironing out configuration until the board showed this weired behavior (stopping me in the process).

      Unfortunately the "online" config tool, only allows to assign one stepper to one axis. So I assigned the rest of the steppers to Ex and started modifying configuration.

      Also Probes and Bed sensors are not yet configured properly (I'd love to do that 🙂 as soon as the boars starts working again )

      posted in Duet Hardware and wiring
      TimTomundefined
      TimTom

    Latest posts made by TimTom

    • RE: print slows down mid print

      @phaedrux
      Ahh ok, so you already adjusted the partition scheme, great to hear 🙂

      According to serial my board was 2021-06.
      Nevertheless I'd add a note to Setup/install guide, I'd written something but can't find my docu credentials at the moment.

      posted in Beta Firmware
      TimTomundefined
      TimTom
    • RE: print slows down mid print

      @phaedrux
      Well the board I had was not too old (I received it 1-2 months ago), it already had the current stable version on the SD-card.

      As I'm a product manager myself (also for snom phones in the past = embedded devices), I'm very curious on what the solution is. Having invested some time and money (filament and new SD-cards), I'd love to hear what your conclusions are. Feel free to reach out on separate channel 🙂

      posted in Beta Firmware
      TimTomundefined
      TimTom
    • RE: print slows down mid print

      @phaedrux @dc42 @gloomyandy
      I believe I found the Issue - small volume size lead to massive fragementation resulting in horrible SD-card performance.

      In preparation for the "new cards" I took out the stock card and found out that the 8 GB card only has a 256 MB partition (so only 256 MB were usable).

      Being curious I reformatted the card to it's full capacity and ran the Speed tests M122 P104 again, surprise, surprise speed tests dramatically improved:

      with 256 MB partition (mostlikely massivly fragmented):
      a1212489-d120-4211-984c-5fb179213a92-image.png

      with 8GB partition:
      1e424497-7eff-498a-ba48-110ad4e96cb7-image.png

      Read speed nearly trippled!

      Trying it again and BAM issue solved! - With the very same SD-Card!!!!

      04609216-b1df-4052-ad15-715fff4a1b52-image.png

      My assumptions and maybe what might cause this:

      • with 256 MB the "volume" is pretty full as my gcode+firmware files already occupied ~200 MB so not a lot of "free space"
      • doing a several firmware updates and lots of configuration changes, deleting and uploading always performs writes to the SD-card
      • FAT32 tends to fragment much more than other more modern filesystems
      • SD-card interface of Duet is not comparable with a high-tech PCIe SSD.

      Bottom line the small volume got highly fragmented (explanation see below), resulting in super bad performance.
      Unfortunatly I did not check the SD-card for fragmentation prior deleting, so I have no "proof".

      Suggestion for Duet
      I assume the small volume size of 256 GB is a result of historic artifact, because that allows to use any size of SD-card (down to 256 MB) in the production process. My humble suggestion would be

      • to change the manufacturing process to either start with lager volumes (e.g. 4 GB or 8 GB) or to make this a dynamic process, automatically sizing the partition/volume to the maximum available space (maybe add a cap at 32 GB to take FAT32 limit into account).
      • for existing customers and new customers receiving such cards, I'd put a clear Note about this topic in the documentation (something like "Consider reformating your SD-card to maximum capacity).

      *Fragmentation explained by Roland (music instruments) -
      When an SD card recorder stores new files, it squeezes them into any bits of space it can find. As a result, the data winds up scattered all over the hard drive. When the data from one song file, for example, is stored in many locations within the card memory, the card is said to be fragmented. When the recorder plays back a file from a fragmented card, it has to grab a little piece from here, another piece from there and so on. This is much harder than playing one continuous chunk of data from a single card location. This can slow things down unacceptably and lead to errors during playback, recording and/or any other function in the recorder.

      Fragmentation is a naturally occurring process for a card used with any computer or recording device. SD cards that record audio are especially prone to fragmentation due to the start-and-stop nature of recording.

      We recommend backing up all of your data and then initializing the SD card to clear out this normal fragmentation. To avoid receiving errors and/or problems, initialize the card a couple of times a year.. The following steps will guide you through the Card Backup, Card Initialize and Card Recover procedures:*

      posted in Beta Firmware
      TimTomundefined
      TimTom
    • RE: print slows down mid print

      @jay_s_uk
      Sorry didn't want to be rude, I tend to pay a Euro more per card to avoid such kind of issues, currently the Sandisk 32 GB cards are only 2 Euros more than the "cheaper noname" cards. Filament cost and the time invest is worth much more than these 2 Euros so far.

      @Phaedrux
      Let's hope this solves the issue, cards should arrive today. Nevertheless, the card currently in use, is the stock card coming with the Duet board.

      Will keep you updated.

      posted in Beta Firmware
      TimTomundefined
      TimTom
    • RE: print slows down mid print

      @jay_s_uk

      THAT IS SMALL!
      I usually buy 128 or 256 GB in special offers, also mostly sandisk Ultra or extreme, so I can use them in Cameras, etc. as well. Small cards are comparably expensive (in price per GB).

      posted in Beta Firmware
      TimTomundefined
      TimTom
    • RE: print slows down mid print

      @gloomyandy

      Thanks for the reply, still learning Duet troubleshooting.
      Very weired, 10 MB

      For everyone else running in this issue, @gloomyandy s report is documented here:
      https://docs.duet3d.com/en/User_manual/RepRapFirmware/SD_card
      Following documentation, I ran an SD card speed test in Duet:

      828d46eb-d3da-46f8-b70a-e948bad88c21-image.png

      Wow thats slow! It's the stock card, will replace these days (need to find such a small capacity card) . . .

      posted in Beta Firmware
      TimTomundefined
      TimTom
    • RE: print slows down mid print

      @phaedrux

      Just to annotate, the files are comparably large (one file is 12x the clip, the other 9x clip - both are affected):

      6a92eab6-5ade-483a-b792-4f60f38bd96a-image.png

      So affected file ~10 MB/h ~ 166 kb/min
      Other printjobs ~2-5 MB/h
      (Print times match pretty good if full speed is maintained)

      Could that be an "overload" of some kind (memory/CPU)?
      Slicing the files with PrusaSlicer for an MK3s results in 5-8hours print time (in dependance of infill) - just as a comparison, file size is similar).

      posted in Beta Firmware
      TimTomundefined
      TimTom
    • RE: print slows down mid print

      @phaedrux
      Just installed the provided build.

      It seems to be still there. Layertime seems to double (from 1 min 12 secs to 2 min 25 secs). - but the new version shows the behavior a couple of layers later (not sure if it's only white noise)

      d5c50f9f-b786-4fd1-9458-91034a9de1e3-image.png

      This is the STL I'm using, just put 12 of these on the print bed, for an estimated print time of less than 3 hours it's a comparably large G-Code file
      https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2110134

      I'm a technical product manager in tech industry, so let me know if I could further support with troubleshooting.
      I could connect via Telnet to read out additional values but as it's only console top won't work? Is there additional logging/debugging options?

      posted in Beta Firmware
      TimTomundefined
      TimTom
    • RE: print slows down mid print

      @dc42
      Ok I did a downgrade to 3.3 Firmware, same behavior.

      The print massively slows down at layer ~30.

      Very weired, will test with other prints next days.

      posted in Beta Firmware
      TimTomundefined
      TimTom
    • RE: print slows down mid print

      @dc42

      Sorry for "spaming", just adding input. It seems the printer gets slower and slower.

      As the layers are all exactly the same, it's pretty weired.

      e383d318-5389-46dc-a99b-42b79cc38a79-image.png

      I'd exclude temperature issues, as I started the new print with electronics fans at full speed (keeping the board at ~32°C).

      Next I'm going to try a downgrade to older stable firmware.

      posted in Beta Firmware
      TimTomundefined
      TimTom