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Short circuit error on Kossel XL with duet wifi

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  • undefined
    oogway
    last edited by 19 Jan 2017, 22:31

    Hello all,

    I'm receiving the error message "temperature reading fault on heater 1: open circuit". I replaced the fuse with a .25 amp fast acting fuse and 5 x 20 fuse holder, but that didn't work. I made sure to solder the fuse to the same spot user "cap" did in this thread: https://www.duet3d.com/forum/thread.php?id=247. This is on my new kossel XL with the duet wifi. Everything was working fine until i replaced one of my fans on my hotend. I accidentally had it wired wrong and it burnt out the fan. Though the hot end was still heating up fine. It wasn't until i got the new fan, replaced it, that i started to get the above error message. When i checked my hotend for a short i indeed saw that the back of my z sensor board was touching the hotend. Fixing that and the fuse i assumed would be the end of it but the message remains. Even after resetting the hotend in the duet web control with command M562 P1.

    thoughts?

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    • undefined
      dc42 administrators
      last edited by 19 Jan 2017, 23:19

      Is the bed temperature reading normally, assuming you have a bed heater? If so then the VSSA fuse is OK.

      I suggest you use a multimeter to check that the thermistor is not shorted to the hot end metalwork, the hot end heater, fan wiring, or anything else on the hot end. Then try plugging it into the E1 thermistor connector, and see if you get a temperature reading for heater 2.

      HTH David

      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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      • undefined
        oogway
        last edited by 2 Feb 2017, 03:26

        Thanks for the reply, forgive my ignorance but how can i go about checking for a short with a multimeter?

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        • undefined
          Manfet
          last edited by 4 Feb 2017, 13:44

          measure resistance between both parts which could be shorted, if there is a near zero resistance it is probably a short.

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          • undefined
            T3P3Tony administrators
            last edited by 4 Feb 2017, 15:50

            Also to expand on that make sure the thermistor and heater connections are unplugged when you are measuring.

            There are many articles you can google and youtube videos on how to use use a multimeter to test for shorts between wires.

            www.duet3d.com

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            • undefined
              oogway
              last edited by 7 Mar 2017, 04:24

              Ok, so i started measuring resistance between different points.

              Measuring Thermistor the readings jump around quite a bit.

              I did however measure the resistance of my heated bed from the two red wires and it was .000. Is it possible my bed is the culprit?

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              • undefined
                T3P3Tony administrators
                last edited by 7 Mar 2017, 10:13

                Can you describe how the thermistor values are jumping about. What values do you get and do they change when everything is still or only when you move/touch the hotend/bed

                0 Ohms on the heated bed indicates a short circuit. I would expect about 1Ohm for a "standard" heatbeds on a 12V system

                www.duet3d.com

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                • undefined
                  oogway
                  last edited by 7 Mar 2017, 15:21

                  @T3P3Tony:

                  Can you describe how the thermistor values are jumping about. What values do you get and do they change when everything is still or only when you move/touch the hotend/bed

                  0 Ohms on the heated bed indicates a short circuit. I would expect about 1Ohm for a "standard" heatbeds on a 12V system

                  I'll have to record all of the readings i get from the thermistor but i made sure to be steady and accurate with it. If this heat bed is indeed shorted, what would the next step be? Replacement? Thanks for your help so far.

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                  • undefined
                    T3P3Tony administrators
                    last edited by 8 Mar 2017, 00:06

                    One more question, are you taking the measurements with the heatbed/ thermistors unplugged from the Duet board? If not you need to.

                    www.duet3d.com

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                    • undefined
                      oogway
                      last edited by 8 Mar 2017, 00:35

                      Thermistor values on the hot end jump around from .338, .466, 1.326, and about 10 other numbers. The measurements of resistance were taken from the heat bed while it was completely removed from the printer.

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                      • undefined
                        oogway
                        last edited by 9 Mar 2017, 14:22

                        The interesting part is that even though the heat bed has a short it heats up just fine, it's the hot end that doesn't heat up. What else can i check for to diagnose the hot end issue?

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                        • undefined
                          T3P3Tony administrators
                          last edited by 9 Mar 2017, 22:44

                          Those thermistor values are so low - looks like the multimeter just picking up noise. You are looking for values in the region of 100K for a 100K thermistor.

                          Do you get the same readings of for the extruder and bed thermistors?

                          If not then what temperature for the bed is displayed when the bed thermistor is plugged in?

                          www.duet3d.com

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                          • undefined
                            oogway
                            last edited by 28 Mar 2017, 02:55

                            @T3P3Tony:

                            Those thermistor values are so low - looks like the multimeter just picking up noise. You are looking for values in the region of 100K for a 100K thermistor.

                            Do you get the same readings of for the extruder and bed thermistors?

                            If not then what temperature for the bed is displayed when the bed thermistor is plugged in?

                            I'm not sure how to test the extruder thermistor, there's only a white connector with 4 different color wires coming out of my extruder. ( E3D Titan ).

                            When my bed is plugged in and reading from the duet wifi control, the temperature is 34 Degrees Celsius.

                            Thinking maybe my hotend board might be burnt out?

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                            • undefined
                              sigxcpu
                              last edited by 28 Mar 2017, 04:59

                              There is no extruder thermistor. There is the hotend thermistor.
                              The 4 color wires from Titan are the motor wires. You need to measure the two wires (either white or red/black) coming from down below, inside the heater block where the nozzle is.

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                              • undefined
                                oogway
                                last edited by 28 Mar 2017, 23:18

                                @sigxcpu:

                                There is no extruder thermistor. There is the hotend thermistor.
                                The 4 color wires from Titan are the motor wires. You need to measure the two wires (either white or red/black) coming from down below, inside the heater block where the nozzle is.

                                Gotchya, measuring those 2 wires from my hot end i got a range of numbers. I listed a few of the ones in an above post.

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                                • undefined
                                  T3P3Tony administrators
                                  last edited by 28 Mar 2017, 23:35

                                  So just to be clear you should have 2 thin wires and two thick wires coming from your hotend. Then another 4 wires (probably black blue green red) coming from the e3d titan motor. Ignore the 4 wires coming from the titan motor. Check the resistance across the two thin thermistor wires where they plug into the board, but with them not plugged into the board. If you get similar readings to those you already mentioned then you have a short circuit on your thermistor

                                  www.duet3d.com

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                                    oogway
                                    last edited by 29 Mar 2017, 01:00

                                    @T3P3Tony:

                                    So just to be clear you should have 2 thin wires and two thick wires coming from your hotend. Then another 4 wires (probably black blue green red) coming from the e3d titan motor. Ignore the 4 wires coming from the titan motor. Check the resistance across the two thin thermistor wires where they plug into the board, but with them not plugged into the board. If you get similar readings to those you already mentioned then you have a short circuit on your thermistor

                                    Ok so the 2 thick wires are what i originally tested and what gave me the numbers that jump around.

                                    The 2 thin wires i'm not able to test because of the connector they go to, i tried sticking my multimeter sticks in the 2 holes but didn't get a reading. Should i cut the wires off from the connector to get a reading from the bare wires?

                                    I've attached a picture just to show what i'm talking about.

                                    https://postimg.org/image/dqe59walv/

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                                    • undefined
                                      dc42 administrators
                                      last edited by 29 Mar 2017, 05:53

                                      You could put wires in the connector holes and measure between those.

                                      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                                      • undefined
                                        oogway
                                        last edited by 30 Mar 2017, 00:47

                                        @dc42:

                                        You could put wires in the connector holes and measure between those.

                                        I put wires into the holes as far back as i could and measured but still get a reading of .0L. Perhaps i'm measuring it incorrectly? I used speaker wire and made sure to stick them in as far as they would go.

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                                        • undefined
                                          oogway
                                          last edited by 31 Mar 2017, 20:29

                                          I ended up stripping the wires just to be sure. Still same error message.

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