How to identify a genuine original board
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@elmoret said in How to identify a genuine original board:
I can see at least 5 things that make this a non-genuine board.
Please do elaborate if we’ve missed anything!
Ian
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Not a good idea to give clues to the cloners, IMO.
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You would have thought the complete design files to the hardware is clue enough, if the goal was to make an identical product - but the goal is clearly to make a cheaper product no?
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@elmoret said in How to identify a genuine original board:
Not a good idea to give clues to the cloners, IMO.
They all know the "clues"... the PCB is 99.99% identical (they use the gerbers provided by the duet), the differences are mostly in the quality of the connectors.
It's possible that SAM is recycled from some other boards but I sincerily doubt it as they are not that much used, if there was STM32 on board they can sometimes replace it with the PRC STM32 clone but I don't know of a SAM clone. Other than that, lower precision resistors/capacitors, lower quality elcos .. the only "really important" difference is the connector quality and that they can't change as it kills the profit margin
Anyhow, yet to see a clone that does not say it's a clone, seen 10+ so far and they are all like this on the back - clearly stated "Based on the DuetWifi..." proper attribution and all:
Don't know if any of the clone sellers pay any $$$ to the duet. I know they don't have to but for e.g. Azteeg board makers pay % to the smoothie team and they are not even cloning smoothieboard but designed their own board, but since their board uses smoothieware and is not very useful without it they pay % of every sale to the team 'cause they believe it's a proper thing to do
(at least they were, last time I heard about it, few years ago). -
@arhi said in How to identify a genuine original board:
Anyhow, yet to see a clone that does not say it's a clone, seen 10+ so far and they are all like this on the back - clearly stated "Based on the DuetWifi..." proper attribution and all:
I have seen clones without the proper attribution.
Don't know if any of the clone sellers pay any $$$ to the duet.
They don't.
Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com -
@arhi said in How to identify a genuine original board:
the only "really important" difference is the connector quality and that they can't change as it kills the profit margin
not to mention few (if any?) clones are using 2oz copper
think some of the fysectic stuff claim to be 2oz, but have only seen a 1oz maestro. on the other hand, looking at the picture, it looks more 2oz than not - but i'm not gonna wager on 35um by eyesight, from a picture..
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@dc42 said in How to identify a genuine original board:
I have seen clones without the proper attribution.
So sad
Do you think it's 'cause they try to pass off as genuine or they just couldn't bother the modify the silkscreen?
Don't know if any of the clone sellers pay any $$$ to the duet.
They don't.
Expected so, but hoped there are at least some
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@arhi said in How to identify a genuine original board:
Do you think it's 'cause they try to pass off as genuine or they just couldn't bother the modify the silkscreen?
the latter; there isn't any incentive and what you see isn't always what you get either, so passing it off as genuine comes down to the pictures, not the product
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@bearer said in How to identify a genuine original board:
not to mention few (if any?) clones are using 2oz copper
Yeah, completely forgot about that, I kind assume most multilayer (more than 2 layers) boards are 1oz as I design those
didn't know original is 2oz. I have 2 clones here, will run them trough same paces and test with thermal camera, will be interesting to see -
@bearer weird, the two clones I have, one is from fystech or something like that and other from big tree tech and two originals one from e3d and other from some usa seller I think matterhacker but I get them all mixed up (brother clicked on the first usa seller he found on duet site and got me one, iirc it came with matterhacker stickers + duet stickers) ... both clones look close to originals but silk states it's "based on".. but of course, probbly there are cheaper clones too
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@dc42 said in How to identify a genuine original board:
I have seen clones without the proper attribution.
Have you considered releasing kicad files already with the 'Based on ...' silkscreen?
This will avoid confusion from lazy or uninformed cloners and is still a valid OSH.
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@zapta said in How to identify a genuine original board:
Have you considered releasing kicad files already with the 'Based on ...' silkscreen?
That's exactly what we did for the 1.03 and 1.04 PCB revisions.
Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com -
@arhi said in How to identify a genuine original board:
Anyhow, yet to see a clone that does not say it's a clone.
A clone that doesn't say it's a clone is a counterfeit. A clone that says it's a clone is a lawful reproduction which is one of the goals of OSH.
One problem is that the names Duet (an OSH design) and Duet3D (a brand) are too close and easy to confuse.
What is Aliexpress's policy about counterfeits? Do they take them down.
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@dc42 said in How to identify a genuine original board:
That's exactly what we did for the 1.03 and 1.04 PCB revisions.
That's good. Have you seen 1.03 and 1.04 clones that didn't have the attribution text?
If so, it's malicious.
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@zapta said in How to identify a genuine original board:
What is Aliexpress's policy about counterfeits? Do they take them down.
Some decades ago I made some soldering iron driver for 2 type of 4 wire soldering iron handles (the RTD ones like hakko and clones and TC ones like solomon and clones, but 4 wire only, so heater and sensor separate - I still run my weller using it and use it much more than my pace or hakko's) and I seen that same driver being sold on the aliexpress. I contacted them mostly as a joke (as I push all the work I can with unlicence but that project was not marked with any licence at all at the time so it's gray area) and never got any response from them, neither from aliexpress nor from the seller's ( 2 of them were selling it). The board was not for sale for long (maybe 6 months tops) as better driver became available that supported both 2wire, 3wire and 4wire handles, they ripped off some guy from Romania that designed that one. So in my experience, AliExpress ignores you if you contact them as private person about counterfitting and IP theft. Now, probably, if you send them a letter from layer with proper format and wording things would be different.
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I just did a quick search on Aliexpress and couldn't find a single duet wifi that is represented as a genuine or by Duet3D. The ones I found actually said 'cloned' and the back of the board had the 'based on ...' text in accordance with the OSH license Duet3D chose to use.
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@zapta said in How to identify a genuine original board:
The ones I found actually said 'cloned'
it is in-line with my experience too
