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"auto tune cancelled because target temp not reached" problem

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Tuning and tweaking
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  • undefined
    mhackney
    last edited by 4 Aug 2017, 20:24 8 Apr 2017, 20:21

    I just swapped over to my E3D V6 that was on this machine before. Set to 190°C and it worked perfectly getting to the set point. I did not re-run PID autotune on this one yet, I'll do that as soon as it cools off.

    This verifies the wiring to the connector I plug the hot end cartridge in to is fine. It could be a bad crimp on the Titan Aero connector that I installed perhaps.

    Update: Hmm, the crimps look great and seat properly in the connector.

    My 3D Printing blog: http://www.sublimelayers.com
    Coming this summer: "3D Printing Strategies - the art of perfecting your designs and prints"

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    • undefined
      dc42 administrators
      last edited by 8 Apr 2017, 20:35

      20.5 ohms works out as 28W @ 24V, which should be enough unless a fan is blowing a lot of cool air over the heater block.

      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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      • undefined
        mhackney
        last edited by 8 Apr 2017, 20:42

        The stock Titan Aero fan is big but not directed anywhere near the heater.

        I am running PID auto tune on the original V6 now and it behaves much differently/better. Rose up to 240°C relatively quickly with peak at 240.6°C. Now in auto tune phase 3.

        Once this is done I'll reattach the Aero and check everything again. Both my Aero and the V6 have the "blue wire" 30W 24V cartridge heaters. It's what E3D send stock for 24V cartridges.

        My 3D Printing blog: http://www.sublimelayers.com
        Coming this summer: "3D Printing Strategies - the art of perfecting your designs and prints"

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        • undefined
          mhackney
          last edited by 8 Apr 2017, 20:43

          I got the "warning Heater 1 appears to be over powered and a fire risk" message but the V6 tuned fine. I know how to deal with the warning.

          My 3D Printing blog: http://www.sublimelayers.com
          Coming this summer: "3D Printing Strategies - the art of perfecting your designs and prints"

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          • undefined
            mhackney
            last edited by 8 Apr 2017, 21:02

            Nope, the Aero failed again at 121°C. This time I unplugged the cooling fan just to be sure. The heater block also has the silicone sock on it. I have spare cartridges but I really don't think that's the issue unless you think it's worth trying.

            My 3D Printing blog: http://www.sublimelayers.com
            Coming this summer: "3D Printing Strategies - the art of perfecting your designs and prints"

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            • undefined
              mhackney
              last edited by 8 Apr 2017, 21:51

              Ok, I increased the dead time to 30s and again, auto tune cancels at 123°C. Can you recommend anything? I think I might pull the cartridge out of the V6 and put it in the Aero and be done with it for now.

              My 3D Printing blog: http://www.sublimelayers.com
              Coming this summer: "3D Printing Strategies - the art of perfecting your designs and prints"

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              • undefined
                mhackney
                last edited by 8 Apr 2017, 22:01

                I swapped cartridges and the Aero heats up and auto tunes just fine. So there is either an issue with the new cartridge or the connector I crimped (although it looks fine). I'll redo the connector and try again later after I do some prints. Odd problem this one.

                My 3D Printing blog: http://www.sublimelayers.com
                Coming this summer: "3D Printing Strategies - the art of perfecting your designs and prints"

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                • undefined
                  mhackney
                  last edited by 9 Apr 2017, 00:02

                  A gent on the UltiBots D300VS group just got his kit yesterday and is having the exact issue that I saw with his hot end. He measured is resistance as 20.5 ohms as well and he's running RRF 1.15b - which is what the kit's Duet Wifi ships with.

                  I have a new V6 that came in a new D300VS kit I got last week to use for photographing for the assembly manual. I'm going to take a look tomorrow to see if that cartridge exhibits the same oddness.

                  My 3D Printing blog: http://www.sublimelayers.com
                  Coming this summer: "3D Printing Strategies - the art of perfecting your designs and prints"

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                  • undefined
                    sLpFhaWK
                    last edited by 9 Apr 2017, 06:01

                    I can't PID tune my Aero either. I don't particularly care for how quick RRF cancels the tune just because it goes over temp by .1 degree. Usually in tuning it goes over I thought to know what value's to change to not overshoot the temp by too much.

                    This is also a 24v Aero, I don't know if the crappy meter I have is good enough to test the resistance and I Will check that tomorrow but my crimps are all solid on both ends.

                    -sLpFhaWK
                    Ultibots K250v
                    Rostock Max v2 Soon to be Full MetalMax
                    Mini Kossel

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                    • undefined
                      dc42 administrators
                      last edited by 9 Apr 2017, 06:08

                      @sLpFhaWK:

                      I can't PID tune my Aero either. I don't particularly care for how quick RRF cancels the tune just because it goes over temp by .1 degree. Usually in tuning it goes over I thought to know what value's to change to not overshoot the temp by too much.

                      It's changed in version 1.18, you set a target temperature and normally leave the PWM at 1.0.

                      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                      • undefined
                        DjDemonD
                        last edited by 9 Apr 2017, 09:57

                        Reading this it seems likely that e3d have shipped a batch (at least 2) of duff heater cartridges.

                        Simon. Precision Piezo Z-Probe Technology
                        www.precisionpiezo.co.uk
                        PT1000 cartridge sensors NOW IN, just attach to your Duet board directly!

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                        • undefined
                          sLpFhaWK
                          last edited by 9 Apr 2017, 19:56

                          @dc42:

                          @sLpFhaWK:

                          I can't PID tune my Aero either. I don't particularly care for how quick RRF cancels the tune just because it goes over temp by .1 degree. Usually in tuning it goes over I thought to know what value's to change to not overshoot the temp by too much.

                          It's changed in version 1.18, you set a target temperature and normally leave the PWM at 1.0.

                          Okie. I will give that a shot later, I am currently printing something to test everything. For now everything seems to be working but I have the heated bed on Bang Bang and it over shoots the temp by like 9 degrees. No idea why, my other Kossel doesn't do that.

                          -sLpFhaWK
                          Ultibots K250v
                          Rostock Max v2 Soon to be Full MetalMax
                          Mini Kossel

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                          • undefined
                            dc42 administrators
                            last edited by 9 Apr 2017, 20:07

                            @sLpFhaWK:

                            For now everything seems to be working but I have the heated bed on Bang Bang and it over shoots the temp by like 9 degrees. No idea why, my other Kossel doesn't do that.

                            That suggests that the thermistor is not in good thermal contact with the bed plate. Switching to PID may help, but even if you do then it would be better if you can improve the thermal contact.

                            Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                            Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                            http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                            • undefined
                              mhackney
                              last edited by 9 Apr 2017, 21:42

                              David, I'm reasonably convinced I have a bad cartridge. Two other 24V 30W cartridges work perfectly but this one does not. I can even tell that something is not quite right because it seems to "take off" slow and raises temp very slowly.

                              My 3D Printing blog: http://www.sublimelayers.com
                              Coming this summer: "3D Printing Strategies - the art of perfecting your designs and prints"

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                              • undefined
                                mhackney
                                last edited by 9 Apr 2017, 23:12

                                Some more data, I received 3 hot ends directly from E3D this week to test. They all have 30W 24V heater cartridges. I measured the resistance of each:

                                Aero that led to this post: 20.5 ohms (28W)
                                2nd heater: 19.5 ohms (29.5W)
                                3rd heater: 19.2 ohms (30W)

                                According to E3D docs, all are within +/- 5W spec. I have not tested the other two yet.

                                If I put the "defective" cartridge in my V6 that I swapped the cartridge out of and use the PID tuning I had done for it - which should be in the ballpark - the Aero cartridge raises temp from RT very slowly as previously observed and then errors out at around 118deg C.

                                My 3D Printing blog: http://www.sublimelayers.com
                                Coming this summer: "3D Printing Strategies - the art of perfecting your designs and prints"

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                                • undefined
                                  dc42 administrators
                                  last edited by 10 Apr 2017, 06:54

                                  Do you have silicone socks on your heater blocks? They make a big difference to the heater power you need.

                                  Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                  Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                  http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                                  • undefined
                                    mhackney
                                    last edited by 10 Apr 2017, 12:50

                                    David, yes I am a big advocate of the silicone socks and have them on all my E3D hot ends that have them available.

                                    My 3D Printing blog: http://www.sublimelayers.com
                                    Coming this summer: "3D Printing Strategies - the art of perfecting your designs and prints"

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                                    • undefined
                                      TwoTone
                                      last edited by 11 Apr 2017, 00:12

                                      Interesting, I mentioned I have the same error when trying to AutoTune my bed even though I see the temp increasing when it cancels.

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