Smart effector and trigger height (and a few new grey hairs)

[fcwilt]

@BoA said in Smart effector and trigger height (and a few new grey hairs):

@janjoh So is the offset negative or positive after all ?

Negative.

When the nozzle is just touching the bed that is Z=0.

For the smart effector a bit more movement is needed to trigger the sensor.

At the point Z will be negative.

Frederick

[janjoh]

@BoA Negative, as per the documentation.

[BoA]

OK. When Im thinking about it now, You are right, as G31 takes not the offset, but trigger height (which is effectively offset * -1). My bad.

[NexxCat]

From someone who bashed their head into a wall about this before. Make sure you perform the Z-probe offset and all probing with the bed and hotend heated. I use 60C on the bed and 130C on the nozzle.

[A Former User]

@BoA said in Smart effector and trigger height (and a few new grey hairs):

I will describe a certain picture.
Assumption - nozzle has to be pushed a little to trigger Z

And imagine what is going on when probing. Nozzle touches bed, but not triggered yet, goes to -0.21mm and then it is triggered.

Which means nozzle is at -0.21 when Z trigger, and in other words, Z triggers 0.21 above the nozzle tip.
So, Z probe offset should be above the nozzle level (+0.21mm).

OR

You can assume Z trigger is at 0.00, and set tool offset in Z to -0.21

Hope this short description helps to understand what and why is going on

I'm sorry but (your logic) Is 100% flawed

[BoA]

@CaLviNx What do You mean ?

[A Former User]

@BoA said in Smart effector and trigger height (and a few new grey hairs):

@CaLviNx What do You mean ?

Really?

[BoA]

@CaLviNx Yes. I would say the only mistake is caused by Z offset beeing not the same as Z trigger height, and G31 takes trigger height, which in this case is offset * -1

[Phaedrux]

@BoA said in Smart effector and trigger height (and a few new grey hairs):

Z offset beeing not the same as Z trigger height,

Z offset = z trigger height

[BoA]

@Phaedrux OK. I stand corrected

[A Former User]

@BoA said in Smart effector and trigger height (and a few new grey hairs):

@CaLviNx Yes. I would say the only mistake is caused by Z offset beeing not the same as Z trigger height, and G31 takes trigger height, which in this case is offset * -1

I would say the prime mistake is YOU providing INCORRECT info.

[BoA]

@CaLviNx OK

[Phaedrux]

@CaLviNx said in Smart effector and trigger height (and a few new grey hairs):

@BoA said in Smart effector and trigger height (and a few new grey hairs):

@CaLviNx Yes. I would say the only mistake is caused by Z offset beeing not the same as Z trigger height, and G31 takes trigger height, which in this case is offset * -1

I would say the prime mistake is YOU providing INCORRECT info.

Easy now, we're all trying to help and learn.

[Phaedrux]

@BoA said in Smart effector and trigger height (and a few new grey hairs):

@Phaedrux OK. I stand corrected

Trigger height and the Z offset are one in the same. The trigger height is measuring how far above the bed the nozzle is when the probe triggers, which is a function of the probes Z offset from the nozzle.

In the smart effector, or piezo, or stall detection, or any other contact probe, the nozzle will press into the bed surface slightly (or take up some compliance in the system, compress springs, etc) as it registers the trigger, hence the trigger height is slightly negative.

[A Former User]

@Phaedrux said in Smart effector and trigger height (and a few new grey hairs):

@CaLviNx said in Smart effector and trigger height (and a few new grey hairs):

@BoA said in Smart effector and trigger height (and a few new grey hairs):

@CaLviNx Yes. I would say the only mistake is caused by Z offset beeing not the same as Z trigger height, and G31 takes trigger height, which in this case is offset * -1

I would say the prime mistake is YOU providing INCORRECT info.

Easy now, we're all trying to help and learn.

I was being very gentle trust me.

[DaveA]

@CaLviNx
Well, you,re just being a basket of kittens. Why so aggressive?
Isn't this supposed to be be fun?

[Phaedrux]

@CaLviNx said in Smart effector and trigger height (and a few new grey hairs):

I was being very gentle trust me.

I don't doubt it.

[A Former User]

@DaveA said in Smart effector and trigger height (and a few new grey hairs):

@CaLviNx
Well, you,re just being a basket of kittens. Why so aggressive?
Isn't this supposed to be be fun?

Why do people confuse a frank statement of truth as aggression. ?
Or moreover why do they do it to try deflect the narrative to try to make the person telling the truth feel guilty ?

The truth is the truth no matter how harsh that seems it is still the truth.

Dont shoot the messenger.

In our snowflake culture where this horsecrap of everyone being a winner is prevalent, it doesn't work, this is why our world is in the mess it is in, if you continue to excuse and gloss over mistakes nothing changes, things only gets worse.

If I make a mistake and someone points that mistake out to me, I will thank that person for trying to help me, I wont get butt-hurt because MY mistake has been pointed out to me.

We are all human and as humans we ALL make mistakes.

Unless we are willing recognize and acknowledge that we make mistakes we will never learn from those mistakes and never expand our knowledge, as it is possible to continue to think what we are doing is correct when it is plainly not.

Which is better: the unpalatable truth or the happy lie ?

And an analogy and a little philosophy I use with my students when i am attempting to get them to think critically:

You and thousands people are running towards a cliff to certain death and you think " hold on a minute this is not right i'm turning back" you turn around and fight to get away from the crowd surging forward, with many many saying to you "you are going the wrong way"

Who is wrong ?

No-one, its about belief (to many facts are irrelevant even when they are presented to them)

Who is correct?

Again no-one BUT just because a thousand people think it is correct to run blindly off a cliff to their death because they believe it is the right thing to do does not make you wrong for thinking otherwise, and just because thousands of people are making a choice and you disagree with them and they are trying to tell you, you are wrong doesn't mean they are correct, never be afraid to swim against the tide if you think it is the right thing to do...........

[BoA]

Just to be clear - I do no feel offended or something.
I acknowledge my mistake, and now have better understanding how things work.

Recognizing own mistakes and correcting them is what pushes me forward.
No need to be upset when someone points You Your lack of knowledge.

So... no hard feelings from my side at least.

[Phaedrux]

@CaLviNx said in Smart effector and trigger height (and a few new grey hairs):

Why do people confuse a frank statement of truth as aggression. ?

Frankly, the tone and content of your comments just rub people the wrong way sometimes. You know you're a cantankerous old fart, so don't be surprised if people don't care for it.