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Warning to users of servomotors!

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  • undefined
    mrehorstdmd
    last edited by 29 Mar 2021, 15:03

    I am referring to AC servomotors used in place of steppers, not hobby servos used to change tools, etc.

    I have been using iHSV servomotors in my new sand table build and was forced to make some mods to the mechanism which reduced its size in X and Y slightly. When I put it back together and ran a test file, not even thinking about the smaller dimensions, the mechanism ran into the end of an axis and promptly blew a power supply and Duet board up.

    The servomotors will suck a lot of current to keep up with the input signal and in this case I think that when the mechanism hit the end of the axis, there was probably a large current spike as the motor tried to keep moving, which would have shut down the power supply, but it was moving very fast at the time, and shutting down the power supply would maybe have generated a large voltage spike on the supply line due to back EMF from the motor. I think... Whatever happened, it blew both the Duet board and power supply.

    I tried replacing the voltage regulator chip but the Duet board was still dead, so I assume that a lot more than just the regulator chip bit the dust. I ordered a replacement board.

    The 24V power supply is also dead- the output voltage has dropped to around 12V and bounces up and down a couple volts. I ordered a replacement.

    I will be powering the Duet board from its own supply going forward. That should isolate it from the motor power lines and protect against similar mishaps.

    https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

    undefined undefined undefined 3 Replies Last reply 29 Mar 2021, 18:30 Reply Quote 3
    • undefined
      alankilian
      last edited by 29 Mar 2021, 16:30

      Yikes! That sounds exciting in a bad way.

      Dealing with overvoltage during deceleration can be very tricky.

      One product I wrote firmware for ended up with something like a dozen Zener diodes in parallel to dump the extra voltage generated when a customer stopped moving their bed in an emergency situation and we dumped all the motor EMF back into the power supply.

      SeemeCNC Rostock Max V3 converted to V3.2 with a Duet2 Ethernet Firmware 3.2 and SE300

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • undefined
        deckingman @mrehorstdmd
        last edited by 29 Mar 2021, 18:30

        @mrehorstdmd Ouch! Genuinely sorry to hear of your mishap (and thanks for the warning).

        Ian
        https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
        https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • undefined
          zapta @mrehorstdmd
          last edited by 29 Mar 2021, 21:10

          @mrehorstdmd, what power supply model? Reputable?

          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 29 Mar 2021, 21:58 Reply Quote 0
          • undefined
            mrehorstdmd @zapta
            last edited by 29 Mar 2021, 21:58

            @zapta Meanwell LRS-200-24

            https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 30 Mar 2021, 04:10 Reply Quote 0
            • undefined
              zapta @mrehorstdmd
              last edited by 30 Mar 2021, 04:10

              @mrehorstdmd said in Warning to users of servomotors!:

              Meanwell LRS-200-24

              Sounds reputable enough.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • undefined
                dc42 administrators @mrehorstdmd
                last edited by 30 Mar 2021, 07:10

                Ouch!

                My guess is that when the servo motor hit the hard stop, it first increased the current to maximum to try to overcome the resistance. When that failed, it turned the current off, at which time all the energy stored in the motor inductance was dumped into the power supply rails, causing a voltage spike that blew both the PSU and the Duet. The stepper driver chips and the fan mosfets on the Duet are rated at 30V, although if the drivers are not energised then in theory they can take 60V. The capacitors on the VIN line are rated at either 35V or 50V. Your PSU most likely had output capacitors rated at 35V.

                Using a separate PSU for the servo motors is certainly a good idea. You might also consider connecting a large (e.g. 10000uF) capacitor between the power rails, to help absorb the surge if this happens again. More complex schemes are possible, e.g. turning on a mosfet to provide additional load when the power rail voltage exceeds a limit.

                Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • undefined
                  yngndrw
                  last edited by 30 Mar 2021, 17:26

                  Back in the days of GeckoDrive, they documented a simple circuit to clamp the supply in situations like this:
                  https://www.geckodrive.com/support/returned-energy-dump.html

                  I'm thinking that a sufficiently sized TVS diode would would resolve the issue, although given that the JMC iHSV servos are rated up to 50V with 36V nominal, you're probably better running them at 36V separate from the Duet anyway as suggested above.

                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 30 Mar 2021, 18:21 Reply Quote 1
                  • undefined
                    mrehorstdmd @yngndrw
                    last edited by 30 Mar 2021, 18:21

                    @yngndrw Excellent! Thanks! I will put a couple of those together when I rewire everything.

                    https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 30 Mar 2021, 23:49 Reply Quote 0
                    • undefined
                      zapta @mrehorstdmd
                      last edited by 30 Mar 2021, 23:49

                      Some power supply have 'over voltage protection'. Will this solve the problem?

                      E.g.

                      https://www.mouser.com/pdfDocs/MeanWell_UHP-Series.pdf

                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 31 Mar 2021, 02:04 Reply Quote 0
                      • undefined
                        mrehorstdmd @zapta
                        last edited by 31 Mar 2021, 02:04

                        @zapta The supply I used had overvoltage protection. good for 28.8-33.6 V. Apparently the voltage spike exceeded 33.6...

                        https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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