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Very stubborn print quality issue

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Solved
Tuning and tweaking
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  • undefined
    Macgyver
    last edited by 23 Dec 2021, 15:51

    if you do a print that is say 20mm square but 100mm high, and then do a similar print with the same layer height but do it 50mm square and 100mm are the layer lines the exact same on both prints? Goes to checking cooling and temp control.

    My gut on it as well was Z-axis issues as you had said the problem existed before the upgrade and is the same after the upgrade. So it would have to be something that is unaffected by the upgrade. You had stated that you never really touched the Z-axis and to me, it looks like a weak coil in your steppers.

    To ask an odd question is the result the same on both sides of the print, It looks like it is, but just want to confirm the squashed layer is uniform on all sides or is the layer deformed at different layers on opposite sides?

    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 23 Dec 2021, 16:16 Reply Quote 0
    • undefined
      Vinculum @rjenkinsgb
      last edited by Vinculum 23 Dec 2021, 16:12

      @rjenkinsgb
      Well the bed is PID tuned (also tried BangBang) but seeing that it is 900x1200x10mm it doesn't fluctuate even if i wanted it to.

      Did pid tuning on the hotend as well but as said, it did this also with a E3D volcano (now dragon).
      There is no heated chamber and room temperature is regulated and stable.

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • undefined
        Vinculum @Macgyver
        last edited by 23 Dec 2021, 16:16

        @macgyver
        I wil try that (will be monday, day off tomorrow).

        My gut is also Z since it was largely unaffected. But the motors were replaced as well so a defective coil can't be it since it was with the old motors and with the new.
        Also the bed hangs on 4 independent motors so 1 defective motor would tilt the bed resulting in uneven lines, not the consistent ones i have now.

        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 24 Dec 2021, 08:19 Reply Quote 0
        • undefined
          Dad003
          last edited by 23 Dec 2021, 23:21

          what is powering the Z axis ? belt or leadscrew or ballscrew ? this look like a regular pattern , you might have a leadscrew nut wore out or a bent screw . a bent screw will do that everytime it complete a turn

          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 24 Dec 2021, 09:24 Reply Quote 0
          • undefined
            rjenkinsgb @Vinculum
            last edited by 24 Dec 2021, 08:19

            @hbm-3d
            Are the lines parallel or spiral? It's difficult to tell from the photos, but I think they are parallel?

            Robert J.

            Printers: Overlord pro, Kossel XL+ with Duet 6HC and "Frankentron", TronXY X5SA Pro converted to E3D toolchange with Duet 6HC and 1LC toolboards.

            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 24 Dec 2021, 09:23 Reply Quote 0
            • undefined
              Vinculum @rjenkinsgb
              last edited by 24 Dec 2021, 09:23

              @rjenkinsgb They are parallel.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • undefined
                Vinculum @Dad003
                last edited by 24 Dec 2021, 09:24

                @dad003 above I said that the ballscrews are locked in place by linear rails. Also if that were the case than it would not change with the layer height is my guess.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • undefined
                  rjenkinsgb
                  last edited by 24 Dec 2021, 16:54

                  What do the inside of the square prints look like - flat, ridged with the ridges matching outer ridges or ridges alternating in & out??

                  Robert J.

                  Printers: Overlord pro, Kossel XL+ with Duet 6HC and "Frankentron", TronXY X5SA Pro converted to E3D toolchange with Duet 6HC and 1LC toolboards.

                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 27 Dec 2021, 08:20 Reply Quote 0
                  • undefined
                    theruttmeister @Vinculum
                    last edited by 25 Dec 2021, 00:12

                    @hbm-3d given that it seems to be an error based on layer number, my guess would be some sort of compounding error in either firmware or maybe mismatched slicer settings.
                    Steps/mm on Z or E causing some sort of trailing offset.

                    I'd start by trying to confirm that the machine really is doing what is commanded in Z and E.

                    It's that or you have really really bad CPE on the ballscrews.

                    Isolate, substitute, verify.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • undefined
                      oliof
                      last edited by oliof 25 Dec 2021, 08:59

                      I know this sounds weird but it could be drag on the filament spool. I recently had this with a cardboard spool on a printed spool holder -- just too much friction and the filament needed a good yank from the extruder to move. If you're not using a bearing based roller, it might be worth looking into one. (would also explain why this is less expressed with 0.3 layer height because more material being pushed means more continuous pull on the spool).

                      <>RatRig V-Minion Fly Super5Pro RRF<> V-Core 3.1 IDEX k*****r <> RatRig V-Minion SKR 2 Marlin<>

                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 27 Dec 2021, 08:22 Reply Quote 1
                      • undefined
                        Vinculum @rjenkinsgb
                        last edited by 27 Dec 2021, 08:20

                        @rjenkinsgb As far as i can see they are matching the outside.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • undefined
                          Vinculum @oliof
                          last edited by 27 Dec 2021, 08:22

                          @oliof Good idea but the spool holder is the same as before it had issues.
                          Also, it is not bearing based but it is also guided all the way so there is no yank, the tension is fairly steady throughout.

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • undefined
                            Vinculum
                            last edited by Vinculum 27 Dec 2021, 09:35

                            Ok the plot thickens. I printed a simple square, no infill, just 3 perimeters @ 150mm/s with 0.15mm layer height.
                            The only difference is the size, 100x100, 200x200 & 400x400.

                            Here is the result (forget the writings):
                            Foto 27-12-2021 10 10 46.jpg

                            I'm lost...

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • undefined
                              oliof
                              last edited by 27 Dec 2021, 10:31

                              what extruder and hotend are you using? bowden or direct?

                              <>RatRig V-Minion Fly Super5Pro RRF<> V-Core 3.1 IDEX k*****r <> RatRig V-Minion SKR 2 Marlin<>

                              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 27 Dec 2021, 10:38 Reply Quote 0
                              • undefined
                                Vinculum @oliof
                                last edited by Vinculum 27 Dec 2021, 10:38

                                @oliof Direct. Phaetus dragon with bondtech cht nozzle and sherpa extruder with ldo motor.

                                Ok here's what I think now. It must be extruder related somehow. It isn't the Z-axis or it would not change depending on layer height or even object size as it does now.
                                It is definitly something driven or mechanical since it is way to consistent to be something like material unevenness.

                                The main indicator is that the pattern size increased by object size or vice versa. The smaller the object, the larger the gaps become. Bigger object, so more material extruded, is lower interval. It almost looks like it is overextruding every X meters of filament.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • undefined
                                  oliof
                                  last edited by 27 Dec 2021, 11:37

                                  please check that the drive gears on the sherpa are still aligned to each other and inline with the filament path (I've seen some lose position elsewhere which can cause weird issues). Also make sure your hotend fan is still working correctly. Since you have identical printers next to this, maybe switching out the extruder and hotend from another one to this is easier/faster to ensure they are or are not part of the issue here.

                                  <>RatRig V-Minion Fly Super5Pro RRF<> V-Core 3.1 IDEX k*****r <> RatRig V-Minion SKR 2 Marlin<>

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • undefined
                                    rjenkinsgb
                                    last edited by 27 Dec 2021, 12:09

                                    Are the config files identical between the machines?

                                    Any chance of a typo in this one, like the extruder being in bang-bang mode?

                                    Have you tried the hotend thermistor, as I suggested at the start of the thread?

                                    Robert J.

                                    Printers: Overlord pro, Kossel XL+ with Duet 6HC and "Frankentron", TronXY X5SA Pro converted to E3D toolchange with Duet 6HC and 1LC toolboards.

                                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 27 Dec 2021, 12:16 Reply Quote 0
                                    • undefined
                                      Vinculum @rjenkinsgb
                                      last edited by 27 Dec 2021, 12:16

                                      @rjenkinsgb

                                      M584 X0.4 Y0.5 Z0.0:0.1:0.2:0.3 E1.0 ; set drive mapping
                                      M350 X256 Y256 Z64 E32 I0 ; configure microstepping without interpolation
                                      M92 X800.00 Y800.00 Z12820.00 E1402.00 ; set steps per mm
                                      M566 X900.00 Y900.00 Z150.00 E900.00 ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
                                      M203 X30000 Y30000 Z300 E12000 ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
                                      M201 X2000 Y2000 Z150 E1500 ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
                                      M906 X2000 Y2000 Z2000 E500 I50 ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
                                      M84 S30 ; Set idle timeout

                                      ;Hotend 1
                                      M308 S1 P"1.temp0" Y"thermistor" T100000 B4725 C7.06e-8 ; configure sensor 1 as thermistor on pin 1.temp0
                                      M950 H1 C"1.out0" T1 ; create nozzle heater output on 1.out0 and map it to sensor 1
                                      M307 H1 B0 S1.00 ; disable bang-bang mode for heater and set PWM limit
                                      M143 H1 S280 ; set temperature limit for heater 1 to 280C

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • undefined
                                        Vinculum
                                        last edited by 27 Dec 2021, 14:46

                                        Ok so new update.
                                        Swapped the Sherpa extruder for a brand new orbiter, changed the steps/mm etc accordingly.
                                        No change.

                                        Tried 3rd roll of filament that came from another printer that printed fine with it.
                                        No change.

                                        Unrolled a couple of meters of filament to eliminate the spoolholder.
                                        No change.

                                        It is something that changes based on a certain amount of extruded filament but it is not the extruder...

                                        undefined undefined undefined 3 Replies Last reply 27 Dec 2021, 15:35 Reply Quote 0
                                        • undefined
                                          rjenkinsgb @Vinculum
                                          last edited by 27 Dec 2021, 15:35

                                          @hbm-3d said in Very stubborn print quality issue:

                                          Swapped the Sherpa extruder for a brand new orbiter, changed the steps/mm etc accordingly.
                                          No change.

                                          Was that the extruder only, or the complete hot end system?
                                          (I'm not familiar with those particular extruders).

                                          Robert J.

                                          Printers: Overlord pro, Kossel XL+ with Duet 6HC and "Frankentron", TronXY X5SA Pro converted to E3D toolchange with Duet 6HC and 1LC toolboards.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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