Warning: the height map has a substantial Z offset

printingforfun

proximity probe Omron 5mm, I have tried with all G29 S1 disabled in homingall, homingZ, config.g, config.g.bak including G92 S1, deleted everything in height map.csv folder, send G29 S2 before homing all, cancel active mesh compensation, disable axis limits, set Z=datum, set Z probe trigger height then run G29 and G29 S1 after probing....same results

printingforfun

; config-override.g file generated in response to M500 at 2022-09-27 15:48
; This is a system-generated file - do not edit
; Heater model parameters
M307 H0 R0.307 K0.261:0.000 D8.03 E1.35 S1.00 B0
M307 H1 R3.019 K0.416:0.000 D5.63 E1.35 S1.00 B0 V24.2
; Workplace coordinates
G10 L2 P1 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
G10 L2 P2 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
G10 L2 P3 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
G10 L2 P4 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
G10 L2 P5 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
G10 L2 P6 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
G10 L2 P7 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
G10 L2 P8 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
G10 L2 P9 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00

Norder

@printingforfun
You probably did it with a dirty nozzle when determining the Z offset (trigger height) of your probe!?
I would measure the Z offset again, but make sure that no filament residue is stuck to the nozzle tip.

The following parameter is meant...
G31 P500 X0 Y25 Z3.16

Google Translate
-- Original Text --

Vermutlich hast Du beim ermitteln des Z-Offset (Auslösehöhe) Deiner Sonde mit einer schmutzigen Düse gemacht !?
Ich würde den Z-Offset noch einmal ausmessen, aber achte darauf das keine Filamentreste an der Düsenspitze haften.

Folgender Parameter ist gemeint...
G31 P500 X0 Y25 Z3.16

printingforfun

@norder 10 years printing and building machines.... It's a mosquito hotend, for that price you bet it's clean!

printingforfun

@norder Z offset was (before RRF3.4)usually around 0.45

printingforfun

@printingforfun people here already addressed this problem...and what I have found it's not resolved, I am just bringing the question again if somebody found solution

printingforfun

I have a Duet3D DC42 IR sensor / Probe somewhere laying around, will try with a different probe to see the difference and report the results

printingforfun

@norder this is before RRF3.4

Norder

@printingforfun said in Warning: the height map has a substantial Z offset:

It's a mosquito hotend, for that price you bet it's clean!

I don't understand what the price or the model has to do with clean.
Maybe you misunderstood me or I misunderstood you because the translation from Google is sometimes a bit cryptic.

By clean I mean the nozzle tip.
If residues of the filament are still stuck to the tip of the nozzle and you use it to determine the Z offset, i.e. the trigger height of the probe, the result of the height map is exactly the same as you showed in the first post.

So clean the nozzle... home the printer (all axes)... heat the print bed to the average temperature used (e.g. 60°C)... place the nozzle over a bed level screw (if possible). Use the Machine Movement of the DWC for this.
Raise the nozzle to Z0.05mm when using a 0.05mm sheet of feeler gauge to measure, which is the most accurate method.
Raise or lower the print bed with the leveling screws so that the sheet of the feeler gauge is just slightly clamped.
Now place the probe exactly over this point where the nozzle was before.
Measure this point 10 times in a row with the G30 S-1.
Then add the 10 measurement results from the console and divide by 10.
Now you have the exact Z offset of your probe.

This is my procedure to determine the Z offset.

Google Translate
-- Original Text --

Ich verstehe jetzt nicht was der Preis oder das Modell mit sauber zutun hat.
Vielleicht hast Du mich oder ich Dich auch falsch verstanden denn die Übersetzung von Google ist manches mal etwas kryptisch.

Mit sauber meinte ich die Düsenspitze.
Wenn noch Reste vom Filament an der Düsenspitze haften und man damit den Z-Offset also die Auslösehöhe der Sonde ermittelt, dann kommt genau so ein Resultat der heohtmap heraus wie Du es im ersten Post gezeigt hast.

Also Düse reinigen... Drucker homen (alle Achsen)... Druckbett auf die durchschnittlich genutze Temperatur (zB 60°C) erhitzen... Düse über einer Bettlevelschraube platzieren (wenn möglich). Dazu die Mashine Movement des DWC nutzen.
Düse auf Z0.05mm anheben wenn ein 0.05mm Blatt einer Fühllehre zum messen genutzt wird, was die genaueste Methode ist.
Das Druckbett mit den Levelschrauben so anheben bzw absenken dass das Blatt der Fühllehre gerade etwas eingeklemmt wird.
Jetzt die Sonde genau über diesen Punkt platzieren wo vorher die Düse war.
Mit G30 S-1 diesen Punkt 10x hintereinander messen.
Dann die 10 Messergebnisse aus der Konsole addieren und durch 10 teilen.
Jetzt hast Du den exakten Z-Offset Deiner Sonde.

Das ist meine Vorgehensweise um den Z-Offset zu ermitteln.

Norder

@printingforfun said in Warning: the height map has a substantial Z offset:

Z offset was (before RRF3.4)usually around 0.45

No matter which RRF version you have installed, the offset value of your probe always remains the same.
This distance is purely mechanical and is not changed by the software.
If the Z-Offset value of the probe has changed in the config.g when updating the firmware, replace the value in the config.g with the previously measured value or determine the value again by working through the steps I wrote in the previous post wrote down.

If you add an IR probe, then that probe will have its own z-offset which is not the same as the probe you are using now.

I have installed two probes, one the IR probe and one for special print surfaces where the IR probe has problems, such as glass, for which I have the BLTouch.
Each probe has its own Z offset.
Here as proof my sample section from the config.g...

; Z-Probe (IR-Probe & BLTouch) 1.765mm Differenz
; IR-Probe
M558 K0 C"zprobe.in" P3 H1.7 F120 T10000 B1 A10 S0.010 R0.4   		; disable Z probe but set dive height, probe speed and travel speed
G31 K0 P500 X0.6 Y22.3 Z3.162               		   				; set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height
; BLTouch
M950 K1 S0 C"exp.heater7"
M558 K1 C"e1stop" P9 H3 F120 T10000 B1 A10 S0.010 R0.4				; disable Z probe but set dive height, probe speed and travel speed
G31 K1 P500 X-30.0 Y11.0 Z1.397										; set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height
; Grid
M557 X30:300 Y30:300 P9												; Mesh-Grid

Google Translate
-- Original Text --

Egal welche RRF Version Du installiert hast, der Offset Wert Deiner Sonde bleibt immer gleich.
Dieser Abstand ist rein mechanisch und wird durch die Software nicht verändert.
Wenn sich der Wert des Z-Offset der Sonde in der config.g beim update der Firmware geändert haben, ersetzte den Wert in der config.g durch den vorher gemessenen Wert oder ermittle den Wert erneut indem Du die Schritte abarbeitest die ich im vorherigen Post aufgeschrieben habe.

Wenn Du eine IR-Probe einbaust, dann hat diese Sonde ihren eigenen Z-Offset der nicht der gleiche ist wie von der Sonde die Du jetzt nutzt.

Ich habe bei mir zwei Sonden eingebaut, einmal den IR-Probe und für spezielle Druckoberflächen wo der IR-Probe peobleme mit hat, wie zB Glas, dafür habe ich den BLTouch.
Jede Sonde hat ihren eigenen Z-Offset.
Hier zu Beweis meine Probe Sektion aus der config.g... (Code siehe oben)

printingforfun

@norder sorry if I offended you,
Vanadium Nozzle 0,40 -35.80€
Mosquito Thermistor -29.00€
Mosquito 24V 50W Heater -22.50€
Mosquito 24V Fan -7.90€
Mosquito Boron Nitride Paste -10.22€
Mosquito Hotend -153.41€
Shipping -20€
Total:278.83€
When you put that in the contents of the hot end model and price, you are probably take a good care of it....

printingforfun

@norder with IR probe just want to rule out the possibility of a faulty Omron probe, the problem is that the mesh bed is up, didn't change anything on the printer or the settings except the z offset because probing the bed,now shows bed is up significantly, as the Warning and title of the post is saying, and yes, I make at least 10 trigger height and make a average of the results(with a clean nozzle and without filament in the hotend, with a printing temperature for bed and hotend, have macros for PID tuning, depending on what material is used, mostly PETG-222,80 / ABS,ABS+,ASA -240,100)

printingforfun

@norder thanks, anyway!

Norder

@printingforfun said in Warning: the height map has a substantial Z offset:

sorry if I offended you,

No, you didn't insult me.
I know what it's like to have such an expensive hotend.
Look in my signature, there's a link to my print head, it's almost twice as expensive.
Nevertheless, one can be careless and forget to wipe the nozzle tip before determining the Z offset.

If you had a different z-offset value before the firmware update and everything was OK and you now have a different z-offset value in the config.g and the mesh of the heightmap is still hovering over the print bed, then the problem is already there solved.
Enter the old value again or measure the Z offset again.

Or did I misunderstand something here from the Google translation?
You followed @Phaedrux tip, and if that didn't solve the problem... Z offset value !

Google Translate
-- Original Text --

Nein, Du hast mich nicht beleidigt.
Ich weiß wie es ist so ein teures Hotend zu haben.
Gucke in meiner Signatur, dort ist mein Druckkopf verlinkt, der ist fast doppelt so teuer.
Trotzdem kann man unvorsichtig sein und vergessen vor dem ermitteln des Z-Offset die Düsenspitze vorher abzuwischen.

Wenn Du vor dem Firmware Update einen anderen Z-Offset Wert hattest und alles OK war und Du jetzt einen anderen Z-Offset Wert in der config.g stehen hast und das mesh der heightmap schwebt weiter über dem Druckbett, dann ist das Problem ja schon gelöst.
Alten Wert wieder eintragen oder Z-Offset neu vermessen.

Oder habe ich hier durch die Google Übersetzung etwas falsch verstanden ?
Den Tipp von @Phaedrux hast Du ja befolgt, und wenn das Problem dadurch nicht behoben werden konnte... Z-Offset Wert !

Phaedrux

@printingforfun said in Warning: the height map has a substantial Z offset:

proximity probe Omron 5mm

Does it have a consistent trigger height at all locations on the bed?

How are you measuring the trigger height?

If you use homeall and then command the nozzle to Z0, does it touch the bed, or is there a gap?

printingforfun

@phaedrux Does it have a consistent trigger height all locations on the bed?
Yes, the error Is marginal about 0.02-0.04max

How are you measuring the trigger height?
G30 S-1

If you use homeall and then command the nozzle to Z0, does it touch the bed, or is there a gap?
It's touching the bed, no gap, Z=datum is as set initially, Z0

I don't get it how or why does the extra +2.5-3.0mm difference comes from?
Just printed and crimped the wires for the duet IR probe and will mount it tomorrow, if that shows the same results, I'm gonna compile everything from scratch.... Thanks for your effort!
I see that I'm not the only one with this problem and dc42 moderator is puzzled by this and provided similar advice to no avail....

Phaedrux

And when you measure the trigger height you are putting it into G31 in config.g?

If you send G31 by itself, does it report back the same value?

Can you homeall, then move the probe to the center of the bed, and send G30 to probe. Then send G29 S0 to create a fresh heightmap and see how it looks?

What other thread are you alluding to?

printingforfun

@phaedrux And when you measure the trigger height you are putting it into G31 in config.g?
Yes

If you send G31 by itself, does it report back the same value?
Yes

Can you homeall, then move the probe to the center of the bed, and send G30 to probe. Then send G29 S0 to create a fresh heightmap and see how it looks?
Same, no change:-(

What other thread are you alluding to?
Just google: Warning: the height map has a substantial Z offset.... the first 5-7 results, I think the majority is from this forum... Don't get me wrong that guy dc42(I think) is for me number1 in anything related to Duet...

Phaedrux

@printingforfun said in Warning: the height map has a substantial Z offset:

Just google: Warning: the height map has a substantial Z offset.... the first 5-7 results,

Well the warning is telling you there is an offset. The reason is usually a misconfiguration or order of operations out of whack.

Can you make a video of the process so we can see it in action?

Norder

@printingforfun
Have you ever tried to reduce the immersion speed of the probe when measuring?
If the speed is too high, some probes may supply incorrect values because the motors cannot stop as quickly.
So I would suggest switching from F400 to F200 for testing purposes.

M558 P5 C"zprobe.in" H9 F400 T6000 ; set Z probe type to unmodulated and the dive height + speeds