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Pattern Pressure Advance Calibration

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Tuning and tweaking
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  • undefined
    mrehorstdmd @Ellis
    last edited by 7 Dec 2022, 21:40

    @Ellis I'll print some new tests tonight and shoot some photos and post them. The 1 mm nozzle has been a b**** to print with for everything except single wall vases for a long time. I suspect there's not a lot of pressure in the hot end, and the viscosity of the molten filament probably has less effect on extrusion.

    https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

    undefined 2 Replies Last reply 7 Dec 2022, 23:16 Reply Quote 0
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      Ellis @mrehorstdmd
      last edited by 7 Dec 2022, 23:16

      @mrehorstdmd Found some small errors in the flow math, hold off for now

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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        Ellis @mrehorstdmd
        last edited by 8 Dec 2022, 11:23

        @mrehorstdmd Ok just pushed a bunch of fixes, all clear 🙂
        @CCS86 I fixed the flow and overlap issues. The tab seems to print a lot better now. Give it a whirl.

        undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 8 Dec 2022, 14:17 Reply Quote 1
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          mrehorstdmd @Ellis
          last edited by 8 Dec 2022, 14:17

          @Ellis Thanks. I didn't get to it last night anyway, so I'll try it tonight.

          https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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            CCS86 @Ellis
            last edited by CCS86 12 Aug 2022, 14:36 8 Dec 2022, 14:36

            @Ellis said in Pattern Pressure Advance Calibration:

            @mrehorstdmd Ok just pushed a bunch of fixes, all clear 🙂
            @CCS86 I fixed the flow and overlap issues. The tab seems to print a lot better now. Give it a whirl.

            Looks soooo much better in the gcode viewer! I'll try it tonight.

            Thanks!

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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              oliof
              last edited by 8 Dec 2022, 15:28

              I took the liberty to submit a feature request (firmware retract) and a small bug report (missing unretract length setting).

              <>RatRig V-Minion Fly Super5Pro RRF<> V-Core 3.1 IDEX k*****r <> RatRig V-Minion SKR 2 Marlin<>

              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 8 Dec 2022, 17:14 Reply Quote 2
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                Ellis @oliof
                last edited by Ellis 12 Aug 2022, 17:34 8 Dec 2022, 17:14

                @oliof I don't quite follow the logic behind having a different unretract length. Is that a common thing? Always seemed... bodgy to me. I don't print with large nozzles very often, though, so maybe that's part of it. PA is supposed to help with what you mentioned (needing extra pressure to start), or is that not typically enough?

                I think at a certain point it becomes too many settings & too much clutter - it actually had firmware retract and I removed it (and a few other things) to make it leaner. Software retract works for everyone.

                Once it starts becoming a wall of settings, it starts to become really overwhelming for new folks.

                It's meant to be a quick test with only the features necessary to get it printed, not a full web based slicer with all the same features as your desktop one, y'know?

                Hell, I've even thought about getting rid of the Z hop settings and just baking in the 0.1mm z-hop.

                undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 8 Dec 2022, 17:21 Reply Quote 1
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                  mrehorstdmd @Ellis
                  last edited by 8 Dec 2022, 17:21

                  @Ellis I usually use Z hop equal to layer thickness when I use it at all, so with the 1 mm nozzle, it's typically 0.5 or 0.6 mm...

                  https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 8 Dec 2022, 17:25 Reply Quote 1
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                    Ellis @mrehorstdmd
                    last edited by 8 Dec 2022, 17:25

                    @mrehorstdmd Hmm, possibly. Might just leave it alone.

                    Another thing that occured to me, the default print height is 1mm, which could be small for such large nozzles. It has a setting, but it's buried in expert mode then pattern settings. Any thoughts? Maybe do it by layer count instead?

                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 8 Dec 2022, 19:54 Reply Quote 0
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                      Ellis
                      last edited by Ellis 12 Aug 2022, 17:28 8 Dec 2022, 17:28

                      I think the print it so small that it doesn't really have much opportunity to curl and cause problematic nozzle strikes
                      No overhangs either

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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                        oliof @Ellis
                        last edited by 8 Dec 2022, 17:35

                        @Ellis

                        a) firmware retract is the only way you get proper retract on mixing hotends (2-in-1 like the relatively new tai chi, 3/5-in-1 like the venerable diamond, or 6-in-1 like @deckingmans). Maybe that's not relevant for your PA test.
                        b) I tend to stick with firmware retract because it's simple to adjust during a print if necessary.

                        different unretract length is not often needed, but it helped me with weird filaments and with large diameter nozzles.

                        I'd agree that both are ... rare use cases that don't necessarily need to be reflected. But I personally could use them.

                        <>RatRig V-Minion Fly Super5Pro RRF<> V-Core 3.1 IDEX k*****r <> RatRig V-Minion SKR 2 Marlin<>

                        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 8 Dec 2022, 17:39 Reply Quote 0
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                          Ellis @oliof
                          last edited by 8 Dec 2022, 17:39

                          @oliof I'll consider putting them under expert mode

                          For some background, I went into the 3d printing discord and showed it to some new folks, and they were really confused and overwhelmed, basically. Got a lot of screenshots with "what should I change"?, haha.

                          That's part of what lead to me trimming the fat like this

                          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 8 Dec 2022, 17:40 Reply Quote 0
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                            oliof @Ellis
                            last edited by 8 Dec 2022, 17:40

                            @Ellis I absolutely understand and commend the goal of making this accessible to newcomers. I also do not expect any issue I file to be followed up with (-:

                            <>RatRig V-Minion Fly Super5Pro RRF<> V-Core 3.1 IDEX k*****r <> RatRig V-Minion SKR 2 Marlin<>

                            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 8 Dec 2022, 17:51 Reply Quote 1
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                              Ellis @oliof
                              last edited by 8 Dec 2022, 17:51

                              @oliof 😊
                              I am curious if the lack of an unretract distance setting causes issue with the test in your case.

                              If so, that seems a valid reason to add it - so let me know how it goes

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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                                mrehorstdmd @Ellis
                                last edited by 8 Dec 2022, 19:54

                                @Ellis I've been setting it to 4mm. Should I print taller to look for any particular Z artifacts?

                                https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

                                undefined 1 Reply Last reply 8 Dec 2022, 21:08 Reply Quote 0
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                                  Ellis @mrehorstdmd
                                  last edited by 8 Dec 2022, 21:08

                                  @mrehorstdmd I think only 3-4 layers are needed, just to ensure that it's decoupled from first layer squish, but you can also print it tall to look at the sides of the walls too!

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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                                    CCS86
                                    last edited by 9 Dec 2022, 03:00

                                    New version is printing much better, thanks!

                                    I do wish we could get line width % back though.

                                    You might also consider printing the PA labels at the first layer speed and/or with a thicker line width for readability.

                                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 9 Dec 2022, 03:17 Reply Quote 0
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                                      Ellis @CCS86
                                      last edited by 9 Dec 2022, 03:17

                                      @CCS86 It's still there! Tick "expert mode" up top
                                      I will reduce glyph speed to first layer speed and see how they print for me

                                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 9 Dec 2022, 03:26 Reply Quote 0
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                                        CCS86 @Ellis
                                        last edited by 9 Dec 2022, 03:26

                                        @Ellis said in Pattern Pressure Advance Calibration:

                                        @CCS86 It's still there! Tick "expert mode" up top
                                        I will reduce glyph speed to first layer speed and see how they print for me

                                        Ahh, missed that! Didn't notice it added settings to the other categories. Thanks.

                                        Interestingly, testing at 70mm/s I see the sweet spot around 0.037

                                        But at 120mm/s, the best value actually drops to around 0.028

                                        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 9 Dec 2022, 03:27 Reply Quote 0
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                                          Ellis @CCS86
                                          last edited by Ellis 12 Sept 2022, 03:27 9 Dec 2022, 03:27

                                          @CCS86 PA seems to change at different speeds, same story with Klipper - unfortunately nothing can ever be simple, hah.

                                          That's why I usually recommend to tune at your perim speeds, as that's where you will see it most

                                          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 9 Dec 2022, 15:23 Reply Quote 0
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