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    Scanning Z probe support in RRF 3.5

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    • dc42undefined
      dc42 administrators @dc42
      last edited by

      Here's a blog entry with more details about this scanning probe: https://www.duet3d.com/blog/scanning-z-probe-for-reprapfirmware-and-Duet.

      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

      samlogan87undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
      • JoergS5undefined
        JoergS5
        last edited by

        This post is deleted!
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        • samlogan87undefined
          samlogan87 @dc42
          last edited by

          @dc42 do you guys think you will release a new version of the tool board where you put the i2c bus to a plug? Had another look tonight and there is no way I would be able to solder that 🤣

          Custom Core-XY

          dc42undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • dc42undefined
            dc42 administrators @samlogan87
            last edited by

            @JoergS5 I'm not sure why you deleted your post, however I had the same idea yesterday!

            Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
            Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
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            JoergS5undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • JoergS5undefined
              JoergS5 @dc42
              last edited by JoergS5

              @dc42 I deleted it because I doubt whether the BL Touch is necessary in the future *). But to repeat my idea:

              is it possible to bore a hole into the middle of the Grove coil and assemble it together with the BL Touch so the pin of the BL Touch goes through the coil hole. Then both have the same XY offset.

              *) I thought about using a gauge block at a bed edge as Z0 reference.
              Gauge blocks of class 0 have a precision of 0.1 micrometers. This could even be used with the LDC1612 measuring the angle of a rotated bed => 5 axis AC calibration, by measuring multiple points on the gauge block.

              The next idea was, if I don't use the BLTouch, I could use the bored coil to assemble it around the nozzle, so it has true X0Y0 position. The PCB needs to have enough distance to the heated nozzle... => the aluminium heatblock will disturb measurement

              dc42undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • dc42undefined
                dc42 administrators @JoergS5
                last edited by dc42

                @JoergS5 my feeling at the moment is that because of the sensitivity of inductive sensors to temperature, and to allow a wider choice of bed surfaces including interchangeable beds, it's better to use a conventional touch probe or nozzle contact probe to establish Z=0 and perhaps to do bed tramming too. Then the scanning probe can be calibrated immediately before scanning, and its temperature sensitivity won't matter.

                As you can see from the pictures at https://coolcomponents.co.uk/products/grove-2-channel-inductive-sensor-ldc1612 there is a blank area in the centre of the coil, so drilling a hole there would be possible.

                We're designing a solution based on the LDC1612 at present and although we will be using a smaller sense coil than the Grove one, it's likely that we will include a hole in the centre and design a printable adapter to attach it to a BLTouch.

                Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
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                CNCModellerundefined DeadNewbieundefined JoergS5undefined 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • CNCModellerundefined
                  CNCModeller @dc42
                  last edited by

                  @dc42 said in Scanning Z probe support in RRF 3.5:

                  We're designing a solution based on the LDC1612 at present and although we will be using a smaller sense coil than the Grove one, it's likely that we will include a hole in the centre and design a printable adapter to attach it to a BLTouch.

                  @dc42 Wouldn't the inductive probe pick up the metal in the bltouch? I've assumed this was basically a small metal detector hence you'd need to keep any other metal outside of the coils sense area, or is that not the case?

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                  • dc42undefined
                    dc42 administrators @CNCModeller
                    last edited by dc42

                    @CNCModeller a small amount of metal in a fixed location relative to the coil shouldn't matter. In any case, the larger metal parts of the BLTouch are at the top so about 26mm away for where the coil would be.

                    Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                    Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
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                    • CNCModellerundefined
                      CNCModeller
                      last edited by CNCModeller

                      @dc42 is it fair to say that this type of probe wouldn't be much use scanning a flexible magnetic build sheet like this ? Due to the varying magnetic field?

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                      • dc42undefined
                        dc42 administrators @CNCModeller
                        last edited by

                        @CNCModeller I am using the probe with a flexible magnetic sheet. I was expecting the magnets underneath it to show up in the height map, but they don't. However, the instructions for the Beacon probe say you need to avoid strong magnets.

                        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
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                        CNCModellerundefined o_lampeundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • CNCModellerundefined
                          CNCModeller @dc42
                          last edited by

                          @dc42 said in Scanning Z probe support in RRF 3.5:

                          @CNCModeller I am using the probe with a flexible magnetic sheet. I was expecting the magnets underneath it to show up in the height map, but they don't. However, the instructions for the Beacon probe say you need to avoid strong magnets.

                          @dc42 In your experience, does the height map reference to the magnetic sheet surface or the underlying metal bed?

                          Polar Duet3 Mini + 1HCL
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                          dc42undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • dc42undefined
                            dc42 administrators @CNCModeller
                            last edited by dc42

                            @CNCModeller I can's say because I don't use one without the other. However, the fact that the probe doesn't see the magnets suggests to me that it is sensing the sheet.

                            For reference I am using this bed https://mandalaroseworks.com/products/magbed-for-e3d-toolchanger and this sheet https://whambam3d.com/collections/build-surfaces/products/flexi-plate-with-pre-installed-pex-build-surface?variant=39372386566242.

                            Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                            Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
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                            CNCModellerundefined T3P3Tonyundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • CNCModellerundefined
                              CNCModeller @dc42
                              last edited by

                              @dc42 I'm using the type that looks like flexible rubber fridge magnets so we'll see how that compares. The flux is in long lines spaced at about 10mm pitch.

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                              • T3P3Tonyundefined
                                T3P3Tony administrators @dc42
                                last edited by

                                That mandalaroseworks bed does have pretty darn strong magnets in it!

                                @dc42 why not do a bed scan without the flex sheet installed just for comparison.

                                www.duet3d.com

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                                • dc42undefined
                                  dc42 administrators @T3P3Tony
                                  last edited by

                                  @T3P3Tony OK, here it is.

                                  ec98784f-9ad0-427d-90c9-8e41fdf92347-image.png

                                  Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                  Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                  http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                  T3P3Tonyundefined dc42undefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • T3P3Tonyundefined
                                    T3P3Tony administrators @dc42
                                    last edited by

                                    @dc42 cool, you can clearly see the magnets!

                                    One other interesting test would be to put a thin shim in the middle under the flexi build plate (say a couple of M4 washers and see how accurately it picks up the deformation of the flex plate.

                                    www.duet3d.com

                                    dc42undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • dc42undefined
                                      dc42 administrators @dc42
                                      last edited by

                                      Here's the scan with the bed plate, for comparison. It looks to me that the magnets are being picked up very slightly.

                                      241c9a19-4371-49d5-a1d7-4a88e2cf2814-image.png

                                      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                                      • dc42undefined
                                        dc42 administrators @T3P3Tony
                                        last edited by dc42

                                        @T3P3Tony as you wish:

                                        e9a561d8-49ea-4644-893b-e35abf1a5d71-image.png

                                        One 0.8mm M4 washer in each of two locations.

                                        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                        T3P3Tonyundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • T3P3Tonyundefined
                                          T3P3Tony administrators @dc42
                                          last edited by

                                          @dc42 definitively confirms its picking up the flex plate and not the underlying bed/magnets

                                          www.duet3d.com

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                                          • CNCModellerundefined
                                            CNCModeller @T3P3Tony
                                            last edited by CNCModeller

                                            @T3P3Tony @dc42

                                            1688386589765217860994438101262.jpg

                                            This is what the field lines on the magnetic build plate I'm using looks like, zoom into the magnetic detection film.

                                            It's stuck to a 4mm thick mirror on top of a 4mm thick aluminium plate which has the 250v heater pad on the back of it.

                                            It'll be interesting to see if the AC bed makes a difference when it's on. I guess I should be able to turn it off for the scan once the bed is up to temperature.

                                            I'm assuming the inductive probe will pick up on the mirror coating if it doesn't interact with the rubberised magnetic build sheet.

                                            It'll be a while before I can test this as I've got a lot on at the moment but everything is in hand to give it a try.

                                            For the record very impressed on how quickly this has been done, as always the Duet3D team is top banana 🍌 👍

                                            All the best
                                            Barry M

                                            Polar Duet3 Mini + 1HCL
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