Duet3D Logo Duet3D
    • Tags
    • Documentation
    • Order
    • Register
    • Login

    Why not brushless motors in direct drive extruders?

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved
    General Discussion
    7
    29
    2.4k
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • zaptaundefined
      zapta @Catalin_RO
      last edited by zapta

      @catalin_ro, I don't know much about the technical aspects or the market potential, to have an opinion.

      BTW, Skyentific on youtube often deal with low speed, high torque motors for his robotic actuators. It's an interesting channel. These are high pole count motor, sometimes with additional gearing.

      https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Skyentific+actuator

      Catalin_ROundefined rjenkinsgbundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • Catalin_ROundefined
        Catalin_RO @zapta
        last edited by

        @zapta Quite interesting. Those might be suitable for axis 4 and 5 in a prosumer CNC...

        zaptaundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • zaptaundefined
          zapta @Catalin_RO
          last edited by

          This video has a teardown of such an actuator. Plenty of poles and a planetary gear for torque, and a smart builtin controller.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhxz2Bj2RXA&t=615s

          It's not light and not cheap but interesting. šŸ˜‰

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • rjenkinsgbundefined
            rjenkinsgb @zapta
            last edited by

            @zapta said in Why not brushless motors in direct drive extruders?:

            Skyentific on youtube often deal with low speed, high torque motors for his robotic actuators.

            Those are clones or descendants of the MIT "Cheetah" robot actuators.

            They were originally a modified open-loop motor for a large drone, with a hall position sensor and epicyclic gearbox included, to allow them to function as fully commutated BLDCs.

            And, they specifically have the ability to be back-driven to accept the weight and shock loading in a robot limb application to emulate biological muscle & limb elasticity, without a high-ratio gearbox that would be damaged by such loading.

            The originals are clearly visible in this clip:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkfXW6XMXao

            James Bruton came up with a lower cost DIY version, using generic drone motors with belt reduction rather than the custom epicyclic gearing:
            https://youtu.be/Id11PWxnd4M?list=PLuzW8n0FM__UQutfHUF7jf4jbZwmWM1L6&t=196

            Robert J.

            Printers: Overlord pro, Kossel XL+ with Duet 6HC and "Frankentron", TronXY X5SA Pro converted to E3D toolchange with Duet 6HC and 1LC toolboards.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • Perttiundefined
              Pertti
              last edited by

              Thanks for everybody showing interest around this topic. Looks like reducing weight increases costs as usual.

              Pertti
              ā€œA winner is just a loser who tried one more time.ā€
              George M. Moore, Jr.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • Perttiundefined
                Pertti
                last edited by

                Ha-haa, here it is,found in Hollow shaft extruder thread:
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0SuaIMxAs0

                Pertti
                ā€œA winner is just a loser who tried one more time.ā€
                George M. Moore, Jr.

                o_lampeundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • o_lampeundefined
                  o_lampe @Pertti
                  last edited by

                  @Pertti Now you can enjoy your "told you so..." moment. Only 18 month later 😬
                  ODrive was a starting point, but simpleFOC took the edge off cost-wise. (and it's open source)
                  Too bad, there are only a few driverboards available. Most of them are DIY projects, which we have to order from jlcpcb.

                  Perttiundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • Perttiundefined
                    Pertti @o_lampe
                    last edited by

                    @o_lampe I like this group because of this habit of sharing and commenting innovations.

                    Pertti
                    ā€œA winner is just a loser who tried one more time.ā€
                    George M. Moore, Jr.

                    CNCModellerundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • CNCModellerundefined
                      CNCModeller @Pertti
                      last edited by

                      @Pertti @o_lampe I've bought the shields from here in the past and they seem to be good quality. It only takes a couple of weeks to arrive in the UK

                      SimpleFOC Shield v2.0.4 FOC BLDC servo stepper motor controller brushless motor driver board develop card

                      https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPDYIZC

                      Polar Duet3 Mini + 1HCL
                      https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWjZVEdMv1BY82izahK45qKh-hp3NFkix
                      Wanhao D4S: Duet2
                      https://forum.duet3d.com/post/296755
                      K40 Laser, Duet2
                      https://forum.duet3d.com/post/312082
                      Wanhao D5S
                      https://www.youtube.com/CNCModellerUK

                      o_lampeundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • o_lampeundefined
                        o_lampe @CNCModeller
                        last edited by

                        @CNCModeller These are the official boards, but there are a few designs from forum members. Some are all_in_one boards with STM32 MCU, motor driver and magnetic or optical sensor. None of them are for sale, only by JLCPCB-order.

                        CNCModellerundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • CNCModellerundefined
                          CNCModeller @o_lampe
                          last edited by

                          @o_lampe yeah I have a few different ones, including ones I've got from JLC but for anyone wanting to just have a go they're perfectly usable.

                          Polar Duet3 Mini + 1HCL
                          https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWjZVEdMv1BY82izahK45qKh-hp3NFkix
                          Wanhao D4S: Duet2
                          https://forum.duet3d.com/post/296755
                          K40 Laser, Duet2
                          https://forum.duet3d.com/post/312082
                          Wanhao D5S
                          https://www.youtube.com/CNCModellerUK

                          o_lampeundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • o_lampeundefined
                            o_lampe @CNCModeller
                            last edited by

                            @CNCModeller I'm currently playing around with used hoverboard motors and controllers.
                            There is a github group that has hacked the controller board and offers firmware with FOC, too.
                            Can't compare them yet with simpleFOC, but in one point they are ahead of them which is interesting for my wind-turbine project. (regen-braking)

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • First post
                              Last post
                            Unless otherwise noted, all forum content is licensed under CC-BY-SA