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Multiaxis verifying endpoint position and orientation

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  • undefined
    JoergS5
    last edited by 23 Jan 2024, 17:05

    Hello, @YuriConfessor asked my to implement his robot arm, a 4 axis palletized robot type. I am currently developing, but what is needed is exactly testing the result. This is more than just to say "position xyz is reached, looks ok" or "firmware result data look ok". This thread wants to gather ideas how an exact-as-possible approach can be implemented instead, using the physical result. This will also allow to find possible problems between the firmware result and physical result. Let's say firmware says result 100,100,100 and physical result is 110,90,100 (and additionally information about orientation), then there is a problem in setup, code or somewhere.

    Let's say you have a robot/3D printer/CNC, a firmware implementation, and some G-Code to make movements. The G-Code is executed, the axes move, the endpoint has some position and orientation as result.

    How can be controlled that the movement result is the required G-Code? How can it be implemented? Which measurement methods are possible, can it be automated?

    E. g. optical (Laser based, camera sensors, ...), mechanical, additional MCU to measure and compare with Duet's data. If the measurement is fast, it could be used for collision detection later also.

    This thread shall gather ideas, I will add my own ideas here as well.

    undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 23 Jan 2024, 18:15 Reply Quote 0
    • undefined
      oliof @JoergS5
      last edited by 23 Jan 2024, 18:15

      @JoergS5 a low tech test for XY precision would be a printed template of a square and a circle, with a pen on the arm. Try drawing the template, any deviation from the preprinted template can be measured with a micrometer.

      <>RatRig V-Minion Fly Super5Pro RRF<> V-Core 3.1 IDEX k*****r <> RatRig V-Minion SKR 2 Marlin<>

      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 23 Jan 2024, 18:54 Reply Quote 0
      • undefined
        JoergS5 @oliof
        last edited by 23 Jan 2024, 18:54

        @oliof you can do the same with camera sensors and a laser/LED through the nozzle. The advantage is that it can be automated. But the thread's goal is for orientation measuring and automation especially for multiaxis support. But you're right, it's a first test.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • undefined
          o_lampe
          last edited by 24 Jan 2024, 06:28

          I'd wish there was an autocalibration routine, like the Delta kinematic has.
          It would evaluate arm length's and starting (homed) angles.
          Maybe an acceleration sensor on the toolhead or a more advanced IMU could help.

          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 24 Jan 2024, 08:00 Reply Quote 0
          • undefined
            dc42 administrators @o_lampe
            last edited by 24 Jan 2024, 08:00

            @o_lampe said in Multiaxis verifying endpoint position and orientation:

            I'd wish there was an autocalibration routine, like the Delta kinematic has.

            The autocalibration for linear and rotary deltas works because changes in the parameters that are calibrated result in height changes; so it is possible to calibrate just by Z probing.

            When I implemented SCARA kinematics I looked at whether it was possible to autocalibrate the arm lengths and homing positions. This could be done if a number of points were probed but in X and Y rather than Z. This is likely true for robot arm kinematics too. So if someone can come up with a good way of probing points in X and Y, we should be able to implement autocalibration. One possibility might be to replace the nozzle with a camera and use dots on the bed as the probe points. The camera software would need to report the X and Y distance of the dot from the centre of the image.

            Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
            Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
            http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

            undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 24 Jan 2024, 13:15 Reply Quote 0
            • undefined
              YuriConfessor @dc42
              last edited by 24 Jan 2024, 13:15

              @dc42 I'm prototyping a "3d bed" for calibrating the arm. The problem is the "donut shaped" movement, but i think I can make something that can be used to calibrated. In the next week or so I'll post it so everyone can help improve it

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • undefined
                o_lampe @dc42
                last edited by o_lampe 24 Jan 2024, 13:31

                @dc42 It might be possible to use a reverse ( * ) CNC-touch probe on the tool head to probe XYZ at every corner of the bed.

                *) Instead of placing a touch plate in every corner, just put a plate on the toolhead and a probing pin at the corners.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • undefined
                  MaxGyver @JoergS5
                  last edited by MaxGyver 24 Jan 2024, 14:14

                  @JoergS5

                  For CNC-Machines "Ballbars" are used to determine and compensate discrepancies between the software and physical position of a machine. This would be the most accurate way I can think of.

                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 24 Jan 2024, 22:36 Reply Quote 1
                  • undefined
                    JoergS5 @MaxGyver
                    last edited by 24 Jan 2024, 22:36

                    @MaxGyver for XYZ offsets it looks to be a valuable tool, but does it measure orientation also? (angles of endpoint in respect to workpiece)

                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 25 Jan 2024, 08:24 Reply Quote 0
                    • undefined
                      MaxGyver @JoergS5
                      last edited by MaxGyver 25 Jan 2024, 08:24

                      @JoergS5

                      Yes you are right, with the ball at test the backlash and squareness of each axis in relation to the other linear axis can be determined.

                      To calibrate machines with linear and rotational axis this automatic calibration method can be used.

                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 25 Jan 2024, 08:45 Reply Quote 1
                      • undefined
                        JoergS5 @MaxGyver
                        last edited by 25 Jan 2024, 08:45

                        @MaxGyver that's interesting, thank you for the video link.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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