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PT1000 thermistor configuration

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  • undefined
    Arminas
    last edited by Arminas 12 Feb 2024, 12:27 2 Dec 2024, 12:24

    Hello all,

    Short and simple question - is this line enough for PT1000 configuration:

    M308 S1 P"temp1" Y"pt1000" ; configure sensor 1 as PT1000 on pin temp1
    

    I have used a simple thermistor and there was additional T, B and C parameters in M308 line, but I don't see those in PT1000 configuration duet example

    M308 S1 P"121.temp1" Y"PT1000" T100000 B4725 C7.060000e-8 A"Hotend"
    
    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 2 Dec 2024, 13:18 Reply Quote 0
    • undefined
      droftarts administrators @Arminas
      last edited by 2 Dec 2024, 13:18

      @Arminas said in PT1000 thermistor configuration:

      Short and simple question - is this line enough for PT1000 configuration:

      M308 S1 P"temp1" Y"pt1000" ; configure sensor 1 as PT1000 on pin temp1
      

      Yes. You don't need the T, B and C parameters.

      If you think they're not accurate, you may need to calibrate the Duet board ADCs, see https://docs.duet3d.com/User_manual/Connecting_hardware/Temperature_connecting_thermistors_PT1000#temperature-calibration-and-adc-tuning

      Ian

      Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

      undefined 2 Replies Last reply 2 Dec 2024, 13:36 Reply Quote 0
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        Arminas @droftarts
        last edited by 2 Dec 2024, 13:36

        @droftarts I have two identical 3D printers (in hardware and electronics), and I have switched to a new toolhead for both printers. At first I have configured PT1000 thermistors on both printers like this:

        M308 S1 P"121.temp1" Y"PT1000" T100000 B4725 C7.060000e-8 A"Hotend"
        

        In other words, I just changed Y"thermistor" to Y"PT1000". One printer does not have any problems, another one randomly gets heater fault because of the wrong temp readings, but those wrong temp reading occurred only after I paused the printer to change the filament, not once during the printing process or heat-up. But today I could not start the print because of these heater faults, it says that temperature raises too slow (photo below):
        Screenshot 2024-12-02 141431.png
        So I double checked the configuration for PT1000 and I have noticed that I left T, B and C parameters. I have deleted them, PID tuned the hotend again, and successfully started the print. Will see how it goes.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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          Arminas @droftarts
          last edited by 9 Dec 2024, 18:43

          @droftarts Is it possible that RRF 3.5.4 has some bugs related to thermistors? I have couple of printers that I updated recently and after the update I started getting heater fault. Temperature is stable all the time, expect at a random point temperature jumps up and down. New thermistors installed.

          undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 9 Dec 2024, 20:21 Reply Quote 0
          • undefined
            Phaedrux Moderator @Arminas
            last edited by 9 Dec 2024, 20:21

            @Arminas said in PT1000 thermistor configuration:

            at a random point temperature jumps up and down. New thermistors installed.

            Are the cables routed near other wiring? Sounds more like interference.

            Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

            undefined 2 Replies Last reply 10 Dec 2024, 07:06 Reply Quote 0
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              Arminas @Phaedrux
              last edited by Arminas 12 Oct 2024, 07:10 10 Dec 2024, 07:06

              @Phaedrux yes - Modix printer, bunch of wires are routed to the printhead. But this never happened before in one year with 2 Modix printers. One is having issues, another one not. Is this possibly an interference issue?

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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                Arminas @Phaedrux
                last edited by Arminas 12 Oct 2024, 08:44 10 Dec 2024, 08:43

                @Phaedrux Here is how the temperature readings looks like:
                Screenshot 2024-12-10 104143.png

                Does not look bad for me, but sometime for no reason I am getting temperature fault...

                I will try to make a printscreen if I will get that error again. It's just a random spike up to 300 C, or sometimes down to 50 C.

                undefined 1 Reply Last reply 10 Dec 2024, 08:45 Reply Quote 0
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                  jay_s_uk @Arminas
                  last edited by jay_s_uk 12 Oct 2024, 08:46 10 Dec 2024, 08:45

                  @Arminas spikes like that (i'm talking about the spikes to 300 or down to 50) are usually an indication of a wiring issue and aren't firmware related.
                  I would suggest getting a spare in readiness to swap it over

                  Owns various duet boards and is the main wiki maintainer for the Teamgloomy LPC/STM32 port of RRF. Assume I'm running whatever the latest beta/stable build is

                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 10 Dec 2024, 10:40 Reply Quote 0
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                    Arminas @jay_s_uk
                    last edited by 10 Dec 2024, 10:40

                    @jay_s_uk I assume that the wire issue is somewhere between motherboard and the thermistor itself, because I have changed the thermistor and that did not help. And wire from hotend to motherboard are at least 1.5 meters long... I can not say that wires is visually damaged somewhere...

                    undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 10 Dec 2024, 10:40 Reply Quote 0
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                      jay_s_uk @Arminas
                      last edited by 10 Dec 2024, 10:40

                      @Arminas yes, that would probably be where the issue is.
                      Thats the joy with these large printers and where CAN-FD helps. I guess being a modix printer its using a duet 2?

                      Owns various duet boards and is the main wiki maintainer for the Teamgloomy LPC/STM32 port of RRF. Assume I'm running whatever the latest beta/stable build is

                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 10 Dec 2024, 13:49 Reply Quote 0
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                        droftarts administrators @Arminas
                        last edited by 10 Dec 2024, 10:54

                        @Arminas If the temperature spikes when the printer is idle (heaters are off), you could connect the thermistor (or a resistor) directly to the Duet board. This would show if it's the board, firmware, wiring, or thermistor. I use these when testing boards:
                        0_1566297998327_IMG_4641.JPG

                        Ian

                        Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

                        undefined 2 Replies Last reply 10 Dec 2024, 13:50 Reply Quote 0
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                          Arminas @jay_s_uk
                          last edited by Arminas 12 Oct 2024, 13:52 10 Dec 2024, 13:49

                          @jay_s_uk Yes. I have also another question regarding my RatRig printer - I have purchased 2 x "Rapido Plus Hotend 2 UHF, Black", both came with visually different thermistors. Both should be PT1000, interchangable thermistors. But one does not look interchangable, photo below.
                          photo_2024-12-10_15-48-30.jpg

                          Am I missing something? I think I have bad thermistor on this one, temperature shows stupid things from -4 C to +160 C while heater is off, and I thought I will by a replacement. But replacement thermistor looks very different than this one.

                          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 10 Dec 2024, 14:17 Reply Quote 0
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                            Arminas @droftarts
                            last edited by 10 Dec 2024, 13:50

                            @droftarts I did not notice if temp spikes then heaters are off. But this is a little spike I was able to capture while heater is on:
                            Screenshot 2024-12-10 154233.png

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • undefined
                              droftarts administrators @Arminas
                              last edited by 10 Dec 2024, 14:17

                              @Arminas Please note that PT1000 (and PT100) temperature sensors are NOT thermistors. They are a Platinum (PT) Resistance Temperature Detector (RTD), with a resistance of 1000ohms (or 100ohms for PT100) at 0°C. Their resistance increases as the temperature increases, and are also all made to match the standard resistance vs temperature table. This is why you don't need any additional parameters in the M308 command when configuring PT1000.

                              The resistance of a thermistor decreases as temperature increases, and thermistors come in a wide range of values, and have a wide range of responses to temperature increases.

                              Ian

                              Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

                              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 10 Dec 2024, 14:29 Reply Quote 0
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                                Arminas @droftarts
                                last edited by 10 Dec 2024, 14:29

                                @droftarts my bad, I am talking about PT1000 temp sensor. I am a bit lost with phaetus rapido hotends, I don't understand what I have. I want to buy a replacement temp sensor, but it does not look the same as what I have right now.

                                undefined 1 Reply Last reply 10 Dec 2024, 14:38 Reply Quote 0
                                • undefined
                                  droftarts administrators @Arminas
                                  last edited by 10 Dec 2024, 14:38

                                  @Arminas If you have a multimeter, check the resistance at room temperature. A PT1000 should be 1077 ohms at 20C (see https://www.sterlingsensors.co.uk/pt1000-resistance-table). A 100K NTC thermistor will be around 123300 ohms at 20C (100000 ohms at 25C) see https://api.mikroelectron.com/storage/862/186d503e-bf2a-4279-ac77-9b94ce1f0c80.png.

                                  Ian

                                  Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

                                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 10 Dec 2024, 15:03 Reply Quote 0
                                  • undefined
                                    Arminas @droftarts
                                    last edited by 10 Dec 2024, 15:03

                                    @droftarts okay, it's above 20C in my room and I have 1102 ohms, so it's PT1000.
                                    photo_2024-12-10_16-57-59.jpg

                                    Any ideas where can I buy PT1000 rapido temp sensor? everyone sells this one https://3do.dk/en/spare-parts/1250-rapido20-heateblock-3.html but mine does not have thread, it looks different

                                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 10 Dec 2024, 15:06 Reply Quote 0
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                                      Arminas @Arminas
                                      last edited by 10 Dec 2024, 15:06

                                      in Phaetus website this one is marked as 104NT 😄
                                      Screenshot 2024-12-10 170508.png
                                      I don't understand what is what

                                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 10 Dec 2024, 15:13 Reply Quote 0
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                                        droftarts administrators @Arminas
                                        last edited by 10 Dec 2024, 15:13

                                        @Arminas I think your hot end looks like a Rapido 2F or 2 plus, which talks about having a PT1000: https://www.phaetus.com/products/rapido-2f
                                        The picture you posted looks like the Rapido 2.

                                        Ian

                                        Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

                                        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 10 Dec 2024, 15:23 Reply Quote 0
                                        • undefined
                                          Arminas @droftarts
                                          last edited by 10 Dec 2024, 15:23

                                          @droftarts mine should be 2 plus. Is it normal if multimeter shows 774 ohms (less then measuring unplugged temp sensor) if I measure the temp sensor pins on toolboard?
                                          photo_2024-12-10_17-21-38.jpg

                                          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 10 Dec 2024, 17:26 Reply Quote 0
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