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    E3D Roto + Duet Roto Toolboard - Stepper motor stalling

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    • dc42undefined
      dc42 administrators @arturolaz
      last edited by

      @arturolaz those temperatures look OK. I'm wondering whether the grounding between the tool board and the extruder motor body may be missing. If you have a multimeter, try disconnecting the tool board connector and measuring the resistance between the VIN ground pin on the tool board and the stepper motor body. It should be 50kohms if both mounting screws are connecting.

      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

      arturolazundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • arturolazundefined
        arturolaz @dc42
        last edited by

        @dc42 My bad, there is no connection between them as the way I created the fan shroud requires the mounting screw not touching the toolboard but instead coming from the shroud. I have now read the wiring notes from the docs and will be trying it.

        How can this cascade to a motor stall?

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        • dc42undefined
          dc42 administrators @arturolaz
          last edited by dc42

          @arturolaz extruding filament builds up static charge. If it is allowed to build up on the extruder motor body, it may flash over to the stepper motor wires. From there it flows into the stepper motor driver and may trigger the short circuit detection in the driver.

          See also this thread https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/37882/extruder-stopping-mid-print-fixed-after-reboot.

          Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
          Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
          http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

          arturolazundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • arturolazundefined
            arturolaz @dc42
            last edited by

            @dc42 Understood. I did the test grounding the metal body of the Roto through a wire soldered to the V- terminal of the power connector in the toolboard with a 100k serial resistor but it didn't work, it failed just like before even without reaching 70C

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            • arturolazundefined
              arturolaz
              last edited by

              @dc42 I've been reading about CoolStep and I think it is the next step, unless you have another idea for me to try before.

              Are there any special considerations when implementing CoolStep for the extruder? Most of the documentation is oriented for the other motors

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              • arturolazundefined
                arturolaz
                last edited by

                I haven't been able to conrrectly configure stall detection for the extruder, I just found this post from some years ago https://forum.duet3d.com/post/102570 so I'm running out of options if CoolStep can't be implemented...

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                • dc42undefined
                  dc42 administrators @arturolaz
                  last edited by

                  @arturolaz I doubt that CoolStep is the solution because I am not convinced that the driver is overheating. How quickly after the driver stopped extruding did you take the M121? If the driver really is shutting down because of overheating then it will cool down fairly quickly.

                  BTW your M121 report says that the driver on the tool board is stalled:

                  Driver 0: pos 0, 2682.0 steps/mm, stalled, SG min 0, temp 69.9C, read errors 0, write errors 0, ifcnt 52, reads 40354, writes 0, timeouts 0, DMA errors 0, steps req 0 done 251658

                  If you haven't set the stall detection threshold using M915 then that doesn't necessarily mean that it has stopped moving, but it does suggest that it was under high load when last commanded to move.

                  Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                  Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                  http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                  arturolazundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • arturolazundefined
                    arturolaz @dc42
                    last edited by

                    @dc42 I sent the command as soon as I realized it was failing, 2minutes difference top, at that point I hadn't enabled anything related to stall detection.

                    Quick update of my tests:

                    • Disconnected the Roto motor from the Roto toolboard and rewired it to use a Duet3 stepper driver - Still failing
                    • Printed the exact same test print but now with PLA hoping that the ABS ambient temperature was the trigger of the motor failure but it also failed
                    • Inspected the whole motor assembly but found no issues apart from maybe insufficient grease on the gears (waiting for the grease to test)

                    At this point I'm almost sure the motor or some configuration is the problem but I can't find the root cause of it

                    dc42undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • dc42undefined
                      dc42 administrators @arturolaz
                      last edited by

                      @arturolaz what mode are you running the driver in? Send M569 P121.0 to check.

                      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                      • arturolazundefined
                        arturolaz @dc42
                        last edited by

                        @dc42 these are the current settings:

                        
                        M569 P121.0
                        Driver 121.0 runs forwards, active low enable, mode spreadCycle, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, hstart/hend/hdec 5/0/0, pos 8
                        
                        
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                        • dc42undefined
                          dc42 administrators @arturolaz
                          last edited by

                          @arturolaz said in E3D Roto + Duet Roto Toolboard - Stepper motor stalling:

                          How can the CPU temperature can be calibrated?

                          Turn the printer off and give it time to reach ambient temperature. Read the ambient temperature from a thermometer. Turn the printer on and immediately use M122 to get a report from the board of interest. That report includes the CPU temperature. Compare it with ambient and calculate the correction required.

                          Currently, only the main board CPU temperature calibration can be stored, using the M912 command.

                          Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                          Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                          http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                          arturolazundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • arturolazundefined
                            arturolaz @dc42
                            last edited by

                            @dc42 the Duet3 control board is not installed inside the closed chamber as the roto toolboard is. How can this calibration affect the outcome of the printing tests?

                            Is there anything off in the M69 P121.0 report?

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                            • arturolazundefined
                              arturolaz
                              last edited by

                              For anyone following.

                              I just measured the coils resistance in "hope" for them to be out of spec but they are not. Both measured 7.6 ohms at room temperature.

                              I haven't been able to print ABS nor PLA. I will keep trying tweaking the configuration but I feel that I have tried everything.

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                              • elmoretundefined
                                elmoret @jay_s_uk
                                last edited by

                                @jay_s_uk said in E3D Roto + Duet Roto Toolboard - Stepper motor stalling:

                                @arturolaz there is this as well about the Roto itself
                                c2fbc9fe-0a2a-4b40-9181-fbdfa703cd27-image.png

                                That's a PLA limit, to avoid jams in the hotend.

                                Notepadundefined arturolazundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • Notepadundefined
                                  Notepad @elmoret
                                  last edited by

                                  @elmoret Can confirm, E3D testing is always a "worst case" recommendation. The max motor amperage is only if they are pushing ultra high flow high pressure, in a 50+C heated chamber, for extreme lengths of time.
                                  You may want to raise your amperage as that would give you more force available.

                                  The real bamboo printer manufacturer

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                                  • arturolazundefined
                                    arturolaz @elmoret
                                    last edited by

                                    @elmoret This problem started while printing ABS but I have since reverted to testing with PLA with the same results, the motor keeps stalling after 15-20 minutes of printing when coming from a cold start and sooner on later prints.

                                    @Notepad I have also tested with the absolute max current E3D recomends, 0.6A peak with the same result, I think anything beyond that might risk damaging the coils.

                                    I will open a case with E3D to be sure the motor is not damaged at this point.

                                    infiniteloopundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • infiniteloopundefined
                                      infiniteloop @arturolaz
                                      last edited by

                                      @arturolaz

                                      the motor keeps stalling after 15-20 minutes of printing when coming from a cold start and sooner on later prints.

                                      Looks like a classical heat creep. Initially, this might have happened at high temperatures when printing ABS. Then, with PLA, remainders of the ABS can partially block the filament path so that the melt zone expands upwards…

                                      Have fought with that before, cleaning the filament path had only a temporary effect. In the end, I had to swap both the nozzle and heat barrier. Finally, I improved the cooling (of the cold end of my hot end 😉), which was the root cause of my problem.

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                                      • arturolazundefined
                                        arturolaz @infiniteloop
                                        last edited by

                                        @infiniteloop I hadn't thought of that, I will try a fresh nozzle and upgrade the fan, thanks for the suggestion

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                                        • arturolazundefined
                                          arturolaz
                                          last edited by

                                          @infiniteloop I managed to try a fresh 0.4 nozzle and replaced the original extruder cooling fan with an slightly bigger one, still not working.

                                          Also, I saw on the TMC2240 datasheet that Spreadcycle can compensate to some degree for the back EMF coming from the stepper, switched to that mode but didn't work as well

                                          More ideas are appreciated before I take the leap and go for an smart orbiter.

                                          infiniteloopundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • Phaedruxundefined
                                            Phaedrux Moderator
                                            last edited by

                                            Can you share some photos of the extruder setup to help with context?

                                            Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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