E3D Roto + Duet Roto Toolboard - Stepper motor stalling

arturolaz

I'm currently using the E3D roto extruder coupled with an Duet Roto Toolboard and Duet 3 6HC. I haven't been able to print ABS in my closed chamber custom printer, after 15-20 minutes the extruder stepper motor just stops working, I have verified the extruder fan is working properly, the current for the motor is correctly set as well.

I have been using the E3D Roto for a while without issues in the same setup but recently got the Duet Roto toolboard installed. I noticed the toolboard is rated for 70C MAX but I have also seen the issue at 60C. If I let the printer cool down, I can restart the test again and again pointing to a temperature issue. Is there anything I can do?

Attached my config.g

; General preferences
G90                                                ; send absolute coordinates...
M83                                                ; ...but relative extruder moves
M550 P"Arturo's Hypercube Evo"                     ; set printer name
M669 K1                                            ; select CoreXY mode
M80 C"pson"	   								       ; ATX Control
G4 S2 ; wait for expansion boards to start


; Network
M551 P"reprap"                                     ; set password
M552 I1 S1                                         ; enable WiFi Module
M586 P0 S1                                         ; enable HTTP
M586 P1 S0                                         ; disable FTP
M586 P2 S0                                         ; disable Telnet

; Drives
M569 P0.2 S1                                       ; physical drive 2 goes forwards - Z1
M569 P0.3 S1                                       ; physical drive 3 goes forwards - Z2
M569 P0.4 S1                                       ; physical drive 4 goes forwards - X
M569 P0.5 S1                                       ; physical drive 5 goes forwards - Y
M569 P121.0 S1                                     ; physical drive 0 @ CAN address 121 goes forwards
M584 X0.4 Y0.5 Z0.2:0.3 E121.0                     ; set drive mapping
M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1                            ; configure microstepping with interpolation
;M350 E16 I0
M92 X80.52 Y80.52 Z400.00 E2682                    ; set steps per mm //116.512 for V6 Bowden //409 for Hemera = 3272 for x128 microstepping Hemera E397
M566 X500.00 Y500.00 Z500.00 E150.00               ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min) Z160
M203 X18000.00 Y18000.00 Z1000.00 E5000            ; set maximum speeds (mm/min) Z600
M201 X500.00 Y500.00 Z500.00 E3000.00              ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M906 X1200 Y1200 Z1200 E500 I30                    ; set PEAK motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent //E500 for E3D Roto 
M84 S30                                            ; Set idle timeout

; Axis Limits
M208 X0 Y0 Z0 S1                                   ; set axis minima
M208 X267 Y230 Z245 S0                             ; set axis maxima

; Endstops
M574 X1 S1 P"121.io1.in"                           ; configure active-high endstop for low end on X via Toolboard CAN address 121 on port io1
M574 Y2 S1 P"io8.in"                               ; configure active-high endstop for low end on Y via pin ystop
M574 Z1 S2                                         ; configure Z-probe endstop for low end on Z

; Z-Probe
M950 S0 C"121.io0.out"                             ; create servo pin 0 for BLTouch
M558 P9 C"121.io0.in" H5 F120 T6000                ; set Z probe type to bltouch and the dive height + speeds
;G31 P25 X60.1 Y2.9 Z1.16                          ; set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height // Numeros positivos - Entre mas chico mas separado el noozle de la cama 2.97 para Hemera Z2 para V7
G31 P25 Z1.48

; Scanning Z probe
M558 K1 P11 C"121.i2c.ldc1612" F36000 T36000       ; configure SZP as probe 1, type 11, on CAN address 121
M308 A"SZP coil" S10 Y"thermistor" P"121.temp2"    ; thermistor on SZP coil
G31 K1 Z2 Y0 X25.6                                 ; define probe 1 offsets and trigger height
M558.2 K1 S15 R135895

; Bed
M308 S0 P"temp0" Y"thermistor" T100000 B4138       ; configure sensor 0 as thermistor on pin bedtemp
M950 H0 C"out0" T0                                 ; create bed heater output on bedheat and map it to sensor 0
M143 H0 S120                                       ; set temperature limit for heater 0 to 120C
M140 H0											   ; Enable Heated Bed

; Filament Heater
M308 S1 P"121.temp1" Y"thermistor" T100000 B4725 C7.060000e-8      ; configure sensor 1 as thermistor on pin e0temp
M950 H1 C"121.out0" T1                                             ; create nozzle heater output on e0heat and map it to sensor 1
M307 H1 R3.915 K0.435:0.000 D2.60 E1.35 S1.00 B0 V24.0             ; M307 H1 R1.269 K0.289:0.099 D7.36 E1.35 S1.00 B0 - V6 Fan 100%
M307 H0 R0.908 K0.263:0.000 D9.12 E1.35 S1.00 B0                   ; E3D High Voltage Bed Fan ON 100%

; Layer Fan
M950 F0 C"121.out1" Q25000                         ; create fan 0 on pin out1 and set its frequency
M106 P0 C"Layer Fan:" S0.0 H-1                     ; set fan 0 value, "S0" off by default. Thermostatic control is turned off

; Fans
; Extruder Fan
M950 F1 C"121.out2" Q500                           ; create fan 1 on pin out2 and set its frequency
M106 P1 C"Extruder Fan" S255 H-1                   ; set fan 1 value. Thermostatic control is turned off

; Tools
M563 S"Nozzle Revo V7" P0 D0 H1 F0                 ; define tool 1
G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0                                    ; set tool 0 axis offsets
G10 P0 R0 S0                                       ; set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C

; Miscellaneous
M575 P1 S1 B57600                                  ; enable support for PanelDue
M911 S10 R11 P"M913 X0 Y0 G91 M83 G1 Z3 E-5 F1000" ; set voltage thresholds and actions to run on power loss
M564 H0                                            ;
;M572 D0 S0.05                                     ; Linear Advance for E3D Roto
;M572 D0 S0.55									   ; Linear Advance for V7 PLA Bowden
;M955 P0 C"spi.cs4+spi.cs3"                         ; Accelerometer Support
;M593 P"zvd" F43.2

T0

jay_s_uk

@arturolaz there is this as well about the Roto itself

dc42

@arturolaz when it stops working, use M122 B121 to check whether the driver is reporting over-temperature, or the CPU temperature s reporting very hot. Note, the CPU temperature may need to be calibrated.

arturolaz

@jay_s_uk said in E3D Roto + Duet Roto Toolboard - Stepper motor stalling:

@arturolaz there is this as well about the Roto itself

@jay_s_uk Yeah I know I am overstressing it, I just can't get around the fact that I have used it before in the same conditions and had no issues until I included the Duet Roto toolboard

@dc42 said in E3D Roto + Duet Roto Toolboard - Stepper motor stalling:

@arturolaz when it stops working, use M122 B121 to check whether the driver is reporting over-temperature, or the CPU temperature s reporting very hot. Note, the CPU temperature may need to be calibrated.

@dc42 Here is the console output for M122 B121 while the extruder stepper is failing. How can the CPU temperature can be calibrated?

m122 b121
Diagnostics for board 121:
Duet TOOL1RR firmware version 3.5.4 (2024-11-24 10:43:09)
Bootloader ID: SAME5x bootloader version 2.9 (2023-10-06)
All averaging filters OK
Never used RAM 164400, free system stack 174 words
Tasks: Move(3,nWait 7,0.0%,132) HEAT(2,nWait 6,0.1%,112) CanAsync(5,nWait 4,0.0%,66) CanRecv(3,nWait 1,0.0%,73) CanClock(5,nWait 1,0.0%,63) ACCEL(3,nWait 6,0.0%,65) TMC(2,delaying,1.4%,17) MAIN(1,running,96.8%,314) IDLE(0,ready,0.0%,29) AIN(2,nWait 2,1.7%,211), total 100.0%
Owned mutexes:
Last reset 00:25:32 ago, cause: software
Last software reset data not available
Driver 0: pos 0, 2682.0 steps/mm, stalled, SG min 0, temp 69.9C, read errors 0, write errors 0, ifcnt 52, reads 40354, writes 0, timeouts 0, DMA errors 0, steps req 0 done 251658
Moves scheduled 16084, completed 16083, in progress 1, hiccups 0, segs 24, step errors 0, maxLate 0 maxPrep 18, maxOverdue 9, maxInc 3, mcErrs 0, gcmErrs 0, ebfmin 0.00 max 1.00
Peak sync jitter -8/4, peak Rx sync delay 181, resyncs 0/0, no timer interrupt scheduled
VIN voltage: min 24.0, current 24.0, max 24.1
MCU temperature: min 46.4C, current 68.2C, max 68.4C
Last sensors broadcast 0x00000402 found 2 138 ticks ago, 0 ordering errs, loop time 0
CAN messages queued 1646, send timeouts 0, received 1585, lost 0, errs 0, boc 0, free buffers 38, min 38, error reg 0
dup 0, oos 0/0/0/0, bm 0, wbm 0, rxMotionDelay 297, adv 36296/74679
Accelerometer: LIS2DW, status: 00
Inductive sensor: raw value 36818440, frequency 3.43MHz, current setting 15, ok
Integrated filament monitor not present
I2C bus errors 0, naks 0, contentions 0, other errors 0

dc42

@arturolaz those temperatures look OK. I'm wondering whether the grounding between the tool board and the extruder motor body may be missing. If you have a multimeter, try disconnecting the tool board connector and measuring the resistance between the VIN ground pin on the tool board and the stepper motor body. It should be 50kohms if both mounting screws are connecting.

arturolaz

@dc42 My bad, there is no connection between them as the way I created the fan shroud requires the mounting screw not touching the toolboard but instead coming from the shroud. I have now read the wiring notes from the docs and will be trying it.

How can this cascade to a motor stall?

dc42

@arturolaz extruding filament builds up static charge. If it is allowed to build up on the extruder motor body, it may flash over to the stepper motor wires. From there it flows into the stepper motor driver and may trigger the short circuit detection in the driver.

See also this thread https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/37882/extruder-stopping-mid-print-fixed-after-reboot.

arturolaz

@dc42 Understood. I did the test grounding the metal body of the Roto through a wire soldered to the V- terminal of the power connector in the toolboard with a 100k serial resistor but it didn't work, it failed just like before even without reaching 70C

arturolaz

@dc42 I've been reading about CoolStep and I think it is the next step, unless you have another idea for me to try before.

Are there any special considerations when implementing CoolStep for the extruder? Most of the documentation is oriented for the other motors

arturolaz

I haven't been able to conrrectly configure stall detection for the extruder, I just found this post from some years ago https://forum.duet3d.com/post/102570 so I'm running out of options if CoolStep can't be implemented...

dc42

@arturolaz I doubt that CoolStep is the solution because I am not convinced that the driver is overheating. How quickly after the driver stopped extruding did you take the M121? If the driver really is shutting down because of overheating then it will cool down fairly quickly.

BTW your M121 report says that the driver on the tool board is stalled:

Driver 0: pos 0, 2682.0 steps/mm, stalled, SG min 0, temp 69.9C, read errors 0, write errors 0, ifcnt 52, reads 40354, writes 0, timeouts 0, DMA errors 0, steps req 0 done 251658

If you haven't set the stall detection threshold using M915 then that doesn't necessarily mean that it has stopped moving, but it does suggest that it was under high load when last commanded to move.

arturolaz

@dc42 I sent the command as soon as I realized it was failing, 2minutes difference top, at that point I hadn't enabled anything related to stall detection.

Quick update of my tests:

Disconnected the Roto motor from the Roto toolboard and rewired it to use a Duet3 stepper driver - Still failing
Printed the exact same test print but now with PLA hoping that the ABS ambient temperature was the trigger of the motor failure but it also failed
Inspected the whole motor assembly but found no issues apart from maybe insufficient grease on the gears (waiting for the grease to test)

At this point I'm almost sure the motor or some configuration is the problem but I can't find the root cause of it

dc42

@arturolaz what mode are you running the driver in? Send M569 P121.0 to check.

arturolaz

@dc42 these are the current settings:


M569 P121.0
Driver 121.0 runs forwards, active low enable, mode spreadCycle, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, hstart/hend/hdec 5/0/0, pos 8

dc42

@arturolaz said in E3D Roto + Duet Roto Toolboard - Stepper motor stalling:

How can the CPU temperature can be calibrated?

Turn the printer off and give it time to reach ambient temperature. Read the ambient temperature from a thermometer. Turn the printer on and immediately use M122 to get a report from the board of interest. That report includes the CPU temperature. Compare it with ambient and calculate the correction required.

Currently, only the main board CPU temperature calibration can be stored, using the M912 command.

arturolaz

@dc42 the Duet3 control board is not installed inside the closed chamber as the roto toolboard is. How can this calibration affect the outcome of the printing tests?

Is there anything off in the M69 P121.0 report?

arturolaz

For anyone following.

I just measured the coils resistance in "hope" for them to be out of spec but they are not. Both measured 7.6 ohms at room temperature.

I haven't been able to print ABS nor PLA. I will keep trying tweaking the configuration but I feel that I have tried everything.

elmoret

@jay_s_uk said in E3D Roto + Duet Roto Toolboard - Stepper motor stalling:

@arturolaz there is this as well about the Roto itself

That's a PLA limit, to avoid jams in the hotend.

Notepad

@elmoret Can confirm, E3D testing is always a "worst case" recommendation. The max motor amperage is only if they are pushing ultra high flow high pressure, in a 50+C heated chamber, for extreme lengths of time.
You may want to raise your amperage as that would give you more force available.

arturolaz

@elmoret This problem started while printing ABS but I have since reverted to testing with PLA with the same results, the motor keeps stalling after 15-20 minutes of printing when coming from a cold start and sooner on later prints.

@Notepad I have also tested with the absolute max current E3D recomends, 0.6A peak with the same result, I think anything beyond that might risk damaging the coils.

I will open a case with E3D to be sure the motor is not damaged at this point.