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    My V-King Pro 3d (with belt driven z)

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    • bartolomeusundefined
      bartolomeus @dc42
      last edited by

      @dc42 said in My V-King Pro 3d (with belt driven z):

      Looks good! The 4-leadscrews driven by a single motor is a good solution, if you have bed-leveling screws or some other way to get the bed level, and a frame rigid enough to ensure that it stays that way.

      Do you have problems with the bed dropping under its own weight when the machine is powered down?

      This printer doesn't have leadscrews. It does have bed levelling screws and those work fine. I like the possibility of three or four independant z motors, but that would require a Duex5.

      The bed does not drop at all when powered down. Not even if I try to push it down.

      mrehorstdmdundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • mrehorstdmdundefined
        mrehorstdmd @bartolomeus
        last edited by mrehorstdmd

        @bartolomeus How is the Z axis geared? I see the motor at the back and the shaft coming out at 90 degrees... Is that a printed gearbox? What's inside it?

        I use a belt lifted Z axis, too. It uses an OnDrives Rino 30:1 worm gear reducer. I tried making a printed gearbox to use a cheap Chinese worm gear set, but had problems with the gear quality making it unsuitable for use in a 3D printer without some firmware mods to correct cyclic errors in print layer thickness.

        https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

        bartolomeusundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • bartolomeusundefined
          bartolomeus @mrehorstdmd
          last edited by

          @mrehorstdmd said in My V-King Pro 3d (with belt driven z):

          @bartolomeus How is the bed geared? I see the motor at the back and the shaft coming out at 90 degrees... Is that a printed gearbox? What's inside it?

          It's a worm gear and a toothed gear. Gear reduction is 20:1 (or 1:20 ,not sure, anayway steps/mm is 1600). They are mounted in a printed 'gear box' and connected the an opposite wide with a 5mm rod. The belt itself rides on a standard 20t pulley.

          mrehorstdmdundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • mrehorstdmdundefined
            mrehorstdmd @bartolomeus
            last edited by

            @bartolomeus What gears did you use?

            https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

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            • bartolomeusundefined
              bartolomeus @mrehorstdmd
              last edited by

              @mrehorstdmd said in My V-King Pro 3d (with belt driven z):

              @bartolomeus What gears did you use?

              https://www.ebay.com/itm/1M-20T-B5-1T-B5-Worm-Gear-1-Module-90-Angle-Set-Kit-Ratio-20-1-Wheelbase-18mm/262744570681?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

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              • bartolomeusundefined
                bartolomeus @mrehorstdmd
                last edited by

                @mrehorstdmd said in My V-King Pro 3d (with belt driven z):

                @bartolomeus
                I use a belt lifted Z axis, too. It uses an OnDrives Rino 30:1 worm gear reducer. I tried making a printed gearbox to use a cheap Chinese worm gear set, but had problems with the gear quality making it unsuitable for use in a 3D printer without some firmware mods to correct cyclic errors in print layer thickness.

                Ah! I read your article. After the rebuild, I haven't printed something with which I can check. Although, personally I really like the surface of the calibration cube in the pic in the first post.

                mrehorstdmdundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • mrehorstdmdundefined
                  mrehorstdmd @bartolomeus
                  last edited by mrehorstdmd

                  @bartolomeus The gear box I tried to build used some much larger and apparently poorer quality gears from China. I'll have to order a set of your gears and give them a try. 20:1 might be a little low for the mass I have to lift and keep from dropping but it will be worth a try. Thanks! Did the gears' dimensions match the drawing?

                  Can you post a photo of your gearbox?

                  https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

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                  • deckingmanundefined
                    deckingman
                    last edited by

                    Just out of curiosity guys, but what if anything does a belt driven Z axis give you vs say 3 fine pitch single start screws driven by a single motor?

                    Ian
                    https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                    https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                    bartolomeusundefined mrehorstdmdundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • bartolomeusundefined
                      bartolomeus @deckingman
                      last edited by

                      @deckingman For me it's personal preference. I could not find high quality lead screws for my HEVO, and the ones from china were mostly bent. Also, for me, this frame with belts is easier to assemble, easier to align, it uses less/ smaller printed parts. It also makes it easier to build with mainly genuine parts, instead of cheap lead screws and cheap linear bearings.

                      @mrehorstdmd Heres a pic of the gearbox. It isn't MY gearbox, I didn't design it.

                      0_1533576860760_IMG_20180806_192631.jpg

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                      • mrehorstdmdundefined
                        mrehorstdmd @deckingman
                        last edited by

                        @deckingman Belts don't come bent, so they don't cause Z wobble. I know, if you use decent quality parts and build everything correctly, Z wobble isn't a problem with screws, but the vast majority of printers are built neither correctly nor using quality parts. Since belts don't create lateral forces that cause the bed to wobble, a belt lifted Z axis should work with 8mm end-supported guide rails that would flex like wet noodles with bent lead screws (though vibrations might still cause the bed to shake). Belts are a lot cheaper than screws, and can be set up for arbitrary lengths.

                        Belt lifted Z axis designs benefit from worm gear reducers that increase resolution, multiply motor torque, and stop the bed from dropping when motor power is cut. Print quality depends on the quality of the gears used as flaws will repeat with every rev of the worm and disc gears.

                        By the time you add the cost of a worm gear reducer and the belts and pulleys, using a belt drive for the Z axis may not be any cheaper than using screws. I have about $140 in the worm gear reducer and shaft in my printer, so it might have been cheaper to use screws instead of belts. That's why I've been looking to make a worm drive unit using cheap gears. The one I made was about $40 all-in to replace that $140 Rino (surplus price $108, new price $850) and its shaft, so would make belt lifted Z axes much more practical.

                        https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

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                        • deckingmanundefined
                          deckingman
                          last edited by

                          Thanks guys - I'll stick with my (unconstrained) screws though.

                          Ian
                          https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                          https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

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                          • A Former User?
                            A Former User
                            last edited by

                            If you always got leadscrews that were bent, why did you not just straighten them, it's a very simple thing to do.

                            deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • deckingmanundefined
                              deckingman @A Former User
                              last edited by

                              @calvinx said in My V-King Pro 3d (with belt driven z):

                              If you always got leadscrews that were bent, why did you not just straighten them, it's a very simple thing to do.

                              ,.....and if the screws only provide lift (the job they are supposed to do) and aren't constrained, they won't fight with the guides and cause issues, even if they are (slightly) bent. I know this from experience after a bit of an accident ( replacement screw is on its way but the prints with one bent screw are coming out just fine)

                              Ian
                              https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                              https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                              bartolomeusundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • bartolomeusundefined
                                bartolomeus @deckingman
                                last edited by

                                @deckingman I am not saying one solution is better than the other. I just like this setup and it's working very well for me.

                                deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • deckingmanundefined
                                  deckingman @bartolomeus
                                  last edited by

                                  @bartolomeus yes that's fine. Each to there own. I was responding to other comments about bent screws. I don't see anything wrong with your belt driven z axis, equally I don't have a problem with my screw driven one. Two different ways to achieve the same thing, neither of which is better or worse than the other IMO.

                                  Ian
                                  https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                  https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

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                                  • bartolomeusundefined
                                    bartolomeus
                                    last edited by

                                    @mrehorstdmd Have you ever considered a 3d printed worm gear? Would it be strong enough and more precise than a cheap metal worm gear?

                                    mrehorstdmdundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • mrehorstdmdundefined
                                      mrehorstdmd @bartolomeus
                                      last edited by

                                      @bartolomeus No. I'm not a fan of printed gears, especially not where precision and accuracy are needed. 3D printing can do a lot of stuff, but it can't do everything.

                                      https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

                                      bartolomeusundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • bartolomeusundefined
                                        bartolomeus @mrehorstdmd
                                        last edited by bartolomeus

                                        @mrehorstdmd How about using mod.8 gears vs mod1? (https://kyouikugearjapan.trustpass.alibaba.com/product/50026277888-230595559/Worm_gear_shaft_Module_0_8_Stainless_steel_Made_in_Japan_KG_STOCK_GEARS.html?spm=a2700.icbuShop.prewdfa4cf.1.134a236dhzD8e3)

                                        I am very happy with my print quality, but I think thre is room for improvement. That's why I'm looking for higher quality gears. There are a few, bust most with 6mm bore shaft. These are about the only one I could find with 5mm bore.

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                                        • RichWPundefined
                                          RichWP
                                          last edited by

                                          Hi Bart,

                                          I'm in the middle of a V-King build myself, using a DuetWiFi controller. It would be a big help to me if you could post your config.g and bed.g files for me to look at... Would you mind posting?

                                          Thanks in advance,

                                          Rich.

                                          bartolomeusundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • bartolomeusundefined
                                            bartolomeus @RichWP
                                            last edited by bartolomeus

                                            @richwp Sure I can do that. Although I am not sure you can use it. My build isn't stock:

                                            • 0.9 degree stepper on x and y
                                            • sensorless homing on x and y
                                            • I didn't use the openbuilds cubes on the corners, so my dimensions are different
                                            • I have direct drive now
                                            • I home at xmax and ymax

                                            Other than that, my bed.g is untouched, I have not use it yet.

                                            I am working on the printer now. I'll put my config.g up later.

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