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Ceramic hotend...?

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  • undefined
    peirof
    last edited by 15 Oct 2018, 05:37

    Hi,

    i have see a "ceramic hotend".... seems interesting.

    Can someone give feedback about this kind of hotend?

    Thanks

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      fma
      last edited by 15 Oct 2018, 06:16

      Do you have a link? What is made with ceramic? The heater? The nozzle?

      Frédéric

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        peirof
        last edited by 15 Oct 2018, 08:41

        Hi,

        Yes.

        Ceramic hotend

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          gavatron3000
          last edited by 15 Oct 2018, 08:47

          I'd imagine it'd be not very good due to ceramics being insulators

          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Oct 2018, 10:07 Reply Quote 0
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            peirof
            last edited by 15 Oct 2018, 09:02

            Mmm...

            Maybe Last more time to reach temp.... But when reach.... Ceramic hold well tempemrature as stony stony material...

            Think remember, The furnaces of the foundries have a ceramic coating

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              LHelge
              last edited by 15 Oct 2018, 09:11

              If you're looking for exotic nozzle materials, the Olsson Ruby could be a good start before trying out ceramics.

              http://olssonruby.com/

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                fma
                last edited by 15 Oct 2018, 09:17

                I'm using this exact product¹! It works well, but there is a lack of inertia, and temperature drops when you extrude fast (when purging, for example). But I do recommend it, it is very nice to have a compact hotend. It allowed me to have small tubes to blow air at the output of the nozzle:

                https://www.logre.eu/wiki/Tête_à_FNU#Ventilation_de_la_pi.C3.A8ce

                Note that I use a FNU (http://www.1730hotend.com/filament-nozzle-units/brass/1-75-mm.html) which will soon be replaced by the Zatsit version, which only has a threaded rod, allowing easy change of nozzle.

                ¹: I think this is also the one we can see on the Zatsit printer examples (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/396334038/zatsit-the-awesome-delta-robot-and-3dprinter-with)

                Frédéric

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                  Pat
                  last edited by 15 Oct 2018, 09:17

                  The ceramic ring is the heater, so i guess the time to reach the temp is at least the same or maybe even shorter.
                  Way less mass to heat.

                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Oct 2018, 11:09 Reply Quote 0
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                    gavatron3000
                    last edited by 15 Oct 2018, 09:17

                    Furnaces use ceramics so they don't lose heat to the environment. With a hotend you want a high thermal conductivity to keep the tip temperature accurate. Hence why the blocks are usually aluminium or copper.

                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Oct 2018, 09:31 Reply Quote 0
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                      fma
                      last edited by 15 Oct 2018, 09:18

                      Correction: I only use the ceramic heater, not the nozzle... I may try it, though, as I have to order from them.

                      Frédéric

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                        fma
                        last edited by 15 Oct 2018, 09:26

                        Looking closer, their nozzle does not seem to be in ceramic!

                        Frédéric

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                          fma
                          last edited by 15 Oct 2018, 09:29

                          BTW, there is also this product, part of the all-in-one hotend: http://www.hotends.fr/fr/home/63-corps-de-chauffe-ae.html

                          Frédéric

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                            OBELIKS @gavatron3000
                            last edited by 15 Oct 2018, 09:31

                            @gavatron3000 They solved this by putting the thermistor in the nozzle.
                            For me it is an interesting design, so I am thinking to buy one, when I will switch to 24V

                            P3Steel Toolson mk2 - Duet 2 WiFi --> RatRig V-Core with Duet WiFi 1.03
                            Original Prusa i3 MK3S

                            undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 15 Oct 2018, 09:32 Reply Quote 0
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                              gavatron3000 @OBELIKS
                              last edited by 15 Oct 2018, 09:32

                              @obeliks see how you go I'm interested to see your results

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                                OBELIKS
                                last edited by 15 Oct 2018, 09:34

                                I will post results, but it will take some time. I am not planning the switch in near future.

                                P3Steel Toolson mk2 - Duet 2 WiFi --> RatRig V-Core with Duet WiFi 1.03
                                Original Prusa i3 MK3S

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                                  deckingman
                                  last edited by 15 Oct 2018, 09:58

                                  I looked into these some while back. What you see is an annular (hollow cylinder) heater around an aluminium block. The ceramic part is just the insulation. The heating element is just nichrome wire wrapped around a ceramic core. So in that respect, it's much like a conventional cartridge heater but annular in shape. Oh , and the two wires are for the heater - you still need a thermistor (at least I haven't seen one with integrated thermistor).

                                  Ian
                                  https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                  https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

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                                    dc42 administrators @gavatron3000
                                    last edited by dc42 15 Oct 2018, 10:07

                                    @gavatron3000 said in Ceramic hotend...?:

                                    I'd imagine it'd be not very good due to ceramics being insulators

                                    Actually, there are some ceramics that are good thermal conductors. I know this because while I was doing my PhD I had to build some waveguide carbon dioxide lasers, and I needed a material that was a good thermal conductor and good electrical insulator. Beryllium oxide is one of the best, but highly toxic. Alumina is not as bad as you might think, it conducts heat about 30 times better than glass. For the lasers I settled on hexagonal boron nitride, which has a thermal conductivity about 600 times better than glass (more than aluminium) along the layers and 30 times better perpendicular to the layers.

                                    My guess is that ceramic hot ends are made from either alumina or hexagonal boron nitride. Both are white. Alumina is hard, hexagonal boron nitride is soft like graphite.

                                    Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                    Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                    http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                                      fma @OBELIKS
                                      last edited by 15 Oct 2018, 10:28

                                      @obeliks said in Ceramic hotend...?:

                                      @gavatron3000 They solved this by putting the thermistor in the nozzle.

                                      I drilled my FNU to insert the thermistor as TriangleLabs does with there nozzle... That's maybe why I can see the temperature dropping when I extrude fast: when thermistor is in the heater block, you don't see fast variations.

                                      Frédéric

                                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Oct 2018, 10:32 Reply Quote 0
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                                        OBELIKS @fma
                                        last edited by 15 Oct 2018, 10:32

                                        @fma That makes sense. Maybe that nozzle is a bit better since it is bigger than usual E3D

                                        P3Steel Toolson mk2 - Duet 2 WiFi --> RatRig V-Core with Duet WiFi 1.03
                                        Original Prusa i3 MK3S

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                                          gavatron3000
                                          last edited by 15 Oct 2018, 10:35

                                          Interesting! I had a general view on ceramics and didn't know that David. Ceramic wrapped heater I think would be good. I guess similar in a way to how e3d put a silicon sock onto the heater block.
                                          Always good to keep an open mind

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