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Duet-Wifi Fans won't turn off

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  • undefined
    dc42 administrators
    last edited by 1 Nov 2016, 20:21

    The fan outputs on the Duet do not include a flyback diode because the usual brushless fan motors do not need one. However a brushed DC motor does.

    Fortunately the fan MOSFETs are not difficult to replace, and on the Duet Wifi we added an extra resistor to protect the processor if the fan mosfet fails.

    I will add a note to the documentation about adding a flyback diode if a brushed DC motor is connected.

    Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
    Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
    http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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    • undefined
      kraegar
      last edited by 1 Nov 2016, 20:47

      Thanks dc42 - so I should be OK to use the motor via the fan PWM outputs as long as I have a sufficiently rated flyback diode between the leads of the motor?

      Co-Creator of the RailcoreII CoreXY printer
      https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2407174

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      • undefined
        dc42 administrators
        last edited by 1 Nov 2016, 21:03

        @kraegar:

        Thanks dc42 - so I should be OK to use the motor via the fan PWM outputs as long as I have a sufficiently rated flyback diode between the leads of the motor?

        The running current of 1A is well within the fan mosfet ratimg, but the startup current might be too high. Best measure the resistance with a multimeter, calculate the startup current, and compare it with the current rating on the mosfet data sheet.

        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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        • undefined
          kraegar
          last edited by 1 Nov 2016, 22:02

          4.5 ohms, measured through the motor at rest. Not finding a calculation for startup current, though.

          Co-Creator of the RailcoreII CoreXY printer
          https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2407174

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          • undefined
            W3DRK
            last edited by 1 Nov 2016, 23:06

            Unless you're able to "zero" your meter before measuring such a low value, figure about a quarter to half an ohms of resistance is in the probe leads themselves, so the motor is likely closer to about 4-4.25 ohms.

            Using Ohms law Volts = Current * Resistance, we can solve for current.

            So 12V = I (current) * R 4.25 ohms

            12V/4.25ohm = 2.82A

            That's about 2.8 to maybe 3 amps of in-rush current depending on your probes. That's obviously not the most accurate way of calculating inrush current, but it should be pretty ballpark.

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            • undefined
              peridot
              last edited by 1 Nov 2016, 23:18

              As an aside, can I point out that this should serve as a warning to us all?

              When the MOSFET failed, it failed shorted, leaving the attached device running at full. For a fan, this is annoying, but for a heater a shorted MOSFET could start a fire. The board would happily detect an overtemperature condition, but it would respond only by commanding the MOSFET to shut off, which would do nothing. If the setup used PS_ON, and if the firmware triggered an emergency stop on overtemperature, the fire would be averted.

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              • undefined
                elmoret
                last edited by 2 Nov 2016, 04:53

                I would make the argument that heaters capable of auto igniting a fire shouldn't be used without direct full supervision, but that's just me. 🙂

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                • undefined
                  dc42 administrators
                  last edited by 2 Nov 2016, 08:24

                  @W3DRK:

                  Unless you're able to "zero" your meter before measuring such a low value, figure about a quarter to half an ohms of resistance is in the probe leads themselves, so the motor is likely closer to about 4-4.25 ohms.

                  Using Ohms law Volts = Current * Resistance, we can solve for current.

                  So 12V = I (current) * R 4.25 ohms

                  12V/4.25ohm = 2.82A

                  That's about 2.8 to maybe 3 amps of in-rush current depending on your probes. That's obviously not the most accurate way of calculating inrush current, but it should be pretty ballpark.

                  The fan mosfet is rated at 4.4A for up to 5 seconds at 25C ambient temperature with 4.5V gate drive. The rating will be a little lower at 3.3V gate drive or if the board is warm, but probably still sufficient. If you want to reduce the inrush current, you could connect an inrush current limiting thermistor such as B57153S0200M0 in series with the pump.

                  You definitely need to use a flyback diode when driving a brushed motor.

                  Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                  Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                  http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                  • undefined
                    kraegar
                    last edited by 2 Nov 2016, 13:00

                    I've ordered a pwm/mosfet board to drive the motor, so that'll keep it off the duet. I'll look into getting the mosfet on my duet replaced, and for now, just use the next fan channel.

                    Is there a way to make m106 default to fan1? Or do I have to force that in gcode?

                    Co-Creator of the RailcoreII CoreXY printer
                    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2407174

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                    • undefined
                      dc42 administrators
                      last edited by 2 Nov 2016, 13:16

                      Currently there isn't a gcode to map fan channels. I am considering adding fan mapping on a tool-by-tool basis in a future firmware release.

                      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                      • undefined
                        kraegar
                        last edited by 2 Nov 2016, 13:25

                        Alright. I've scripted it in my slicer to control P1, so no biggie.

                        Co-Creator of the RailcoreII CoreXY printer
                        https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2407174

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                        • undefined
                          dc42 administrators
                          last edited by 2 Nov 2016, 15:26

                          Fan mapping will be supported in 1.16 beta 11 using a new F parameter on the M563 command.

                          Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                          Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                          http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                          • undefined
                            kraegar
                            last edited by 2 Nov 2016, 16:53

                            @dc42:

                            Fan mapping will be supported in 1.16 beta 11 using a new F parameter on the M563 command.

                            Excellent, thanks.

                            Co-Creator of the RailcoreII CoreXY printer
                            https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2407174

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                            • undefined
                              peridot
                              last edited by 2 Nov 2016, 18:18

                              @kraegar:

                              Alright. I've scripted it in my slicer to control P1, so no biggie.

                              Can I ask which slicer you used for this? I can't figure out how to make slic3r's fan control control anything but the first fan.

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                              • undefined
                                kraegar
                                last edited by 3 Nov 2016, 02:05

                                Simplify3d has the ability to run post processing scripts on your gcode.

                                Co-Creator of the RailcoreII CoreXY printer
                                https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2407174

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                                • undefined
                                  kraegar
                                  last edited by 4 Nov 2016, 14:56

                                  So I got this: https://amzn.com/B01J78FX9S

                                  Thinking I could connect it to 12v in, and run the 12v out to the motor, and connect the fan control to the signal / ground on it.

                                  Unfortunately, it's always on when connected that way. Anyone know if I can use a PWM controller like this to accomplish what I'm trying to do?

                                  Co-Creator of the RailcoreII CoreXY printer
                                  https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2407174

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                                  • undefined
                                    deckingman
                                    last edited by 4 Nov 2016, 15:45

                                    @peridot:

                                    @kraegar:

                                    Alright. I've scripted it in my slicer to control P1, so no biggie.

                                    Can I ask which slicer you used for this? I can't figure out how to make slic3r's fan control control anything but the first fan.

                                    You can run scripts from Slic3R but that's a bit complex for this task. What I would do is slice as normal then just use a simple search and replace using notepad++ to change the P0 commands to P1.

                                    HTH

                                    Ian
                                    https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                    https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

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                                    • undefined
                                      kraegar
                                      last edited by 4 Nov 2016, 15:53

                                      In s3d the "script" is:

                                      {REPLACE "M106" "M106 P1"}

                                      Co-Creator of the RailcoreII CoreXY printer
                                      https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2407174

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                                      • undefined
                                        bot
                                        last edited by 11 Apr 2016, 16:31 4 Nov 2016, 16:31

                                        @kraegar:

                                        In s3d the "script" is:

                                        {REPLACE "M106" "M106 P1"}

                                        In S3D, if you go to Tools>Firmware Configuration>FFF you will be given some fields to alter what the fan on and off commands are. Presumably, you could add the P1 thing there, but I've never tried it.

                                        *not actually a robot

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                                        • undefined
                                          kraegar
                                          last edited by 4 Nov 2016, 16:37

                                          Ah, nice, that's even easier. Thanks!

                                          Co-Creator of the RailcoreII CoreXY printer
                                          https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2407174

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