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5-axis 3D printing

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  • undefined
    haraldschmidt
    last edited by 17 Jun 2019, 09:54

    Hello community

    I am a master student from Germany currently working on my master thesis which is about getting a self-made 5-axis 3D Printer work at my University.

    At the moment we struggle with the slicer software for a 5-axis print.
    Is there anyone out there with interest to develop something in this direction?

    Thanks a lot for your responses.

    Best regards,
    Harald Schmidt

    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 3 Jul 2019, 14:37 Reply Quote 0
    • undefined
      Veti
      last edited by 17 Jun 2019, 10:19

      what do your 4th and 5th axis do?

      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 17 Jun 2019, 13:38 Reply Quote 0
      • undefined
        DocTrucker
        last edited by 17 Jun 2019, 11:19

        Probably rotation of the nozzle about x and y axis for conformal printing or repair onto non-planar surfaces such as rollers/cylinders.

        Running 3 P3Steel with Duet 2. Duet 3 on the shelf looking for a suitable machine. One first generation Duet in a Logo/Turtle style robot!

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • undefined
          fma
          last edited by 17 Jun 2019, 13:37

          Hi Harald,

          Some months ago, came the idea to build a 5 axis machine, mainly to print BB-8 panels, which are pure sphere portions.

          My idea was to tilt the bed along X and Y. If I could have a tilt radius equal of the panel radius, the nozzle could remain static (so, it would not be a 5 axis machine!). But it is not easy to do, as the bed would collide the Z axis. So, using a shorter tilt radius would still require to move the head.

          On the slicer side, my idea was to print planar parts, and have a specific kinematic to map the plane onto the sphere. This is not ideal, beause I loose precision when I go off center (or, to be more precise, the planar part does not have all the informations, as parts far from the center have to be stretched to map onto the sphere).

          So, I'm very interested to follow your devs on the slicer, but I have no clue how a slicer works 😕

          PS: I didn't start to work on the mechanic yet. I had a quick look at RRF firmware, but the kinematic model for CoreXY machines has changed, recently, so I have to dig again.

          PS2: tilting the head would work too, but seems more complicated...

          Frédéric

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • undefined
            haraldschmidt @Veti
            last edited by 17 Jun 2019, 13:38

            @veti
            Hello veti,

            the 4th axis is a rotation axis which rotates the Panel.
            The 5th axis is to swivel the Panel.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • undefined
              Veti
              last edited by 17 Jun 2019, 13:52

              did you have a look at linuxcnc?

              http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/motion/5-axis-kinematics.html

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              • undefined
                DallasH
                last edited by 18 Jun 2019, 00:12

                I currently program 5 axis vertical milling machines XYZ+A&B axis rotary trunnion A is +or- 999 degrees, B is +or- 120 degrees. I see no reason why you could not use 5 axis CNC software to generate your G code, I use both Surfcam and Edgecam. both have fully integrated customizable Post Processor generators.

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                • undefined
                  fma
                  last edited by 18 Jun 2019, 05:37

                  CNC and 3D printing does not uses same tools... For example, CAM softwares don't know how to manage bridges or so.

                  I don't think driving the 5 axis is a problem; it's more a matter of a clever slicer to take advantage of additionnal axis.

                  Frédéric

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • undefined
                    fma
                    last edited by 3 Jul 2019, 13:03

                    You should see that:
                    https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/bs7dml/first_tests_using_our_5_axis_printer_slicing_done/?sort=new

                    Frédéric

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • undefined
                      zapta @haraldschmidt
                      last edited by 3 Jul 2019, 14:37

                      @haraldschmidt said in 5-axis 3D printing:

                      getting a self-made 5-axis 3D Printer work at my University.

                      What's your goal? Being able to print shapes that can't be printed on a regular 3D printer? Any example?

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • undefined
                        Marco Bona
                        last edited by 3 Jul 2019, 19:24

                        Look autodesk powermill additive 2019/2020 with netfabb strategies.
                        It should be able to handle 3 + 2 axis interpolations for print

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • undefined
                          fma
                          last edited by 9 Jul 2019, 06:50

                          Hi,

                          I started to work on a pseudo 5 axis 3D printing stuff. This is a work in progress, but I share it so you may give me some advices 😉

                          Frédéric

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • undefined
                            fma
                            last edited by 10 Jul 2019, 06:03

                            As you can see on the wiki page, the idea is to map a portion of sphere onto the plane: this part works fine, and I can have the part sliced the usual way¹.

                            Now, I need to implement the kinematic. My first idea was to post-process the G-Code file, and transform the X/Y/Z coordinates to X/Y/Z/A/B coordinates with a Python script. But it is not that simple, as the additionnal bed rotations make the kinematic non linear 😕 So, the only way is to implement that in the firmware.

                            Some months ago, I started to look in the CoreXY code, but I'm wondering if it would not be easier to build a 6 axis Delta or Stewart platform... Delta kinematic is already implemented, with all the segmention stuff, and adding 3 axis is maybe easier than tweeking the CoreXY code to make it segmented. A 6 axis Delta is maybe also easier to build than a 2 axis bed rotation.

                            David, what do you think? Would it be hard to extend the 3 axis Delta kinematic code to a 6 axis kinematic?

                            Any advice welcome.

                            ¹ BTW, I made some tests with my sphere_to_plan mapper, and found that slicing the portion of sphere mapped to plan uses much less filament : on my little test part, I found 3m40 vs 4m12 ; this is 17% less, and this is done without support for the sphere! If my Python code is correct, this is an argument to develop 5 axis 3D printers.

                            Frédéric

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                            • undefined
                              Marco Bona
                              last edited by 10 Jul 2019, 19:43

                              Sorry but I don't understand what you want to do with xyzab.
                              At most you can exchange a linear axis with a rotary one.
                              I've been working on 5-axis milling machines for several years and what you say doesn't make any sense

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • undefined
                                fma
                                last edited by fma 7 Nov 2019, 05:27 11 Jul 2019, 04:39

                                The goal is to print a sphere as if it was a plan. A/B axis are bed (or hotend) tilt along X/Y, and are used to ensure the hotend is always normal to the sphere at the printing point.

                                Once the STL file of the sphere is mapped to the plan (which works fine) and sliced, the X/Y coordinates of the G-Code describe the sphere of the original stl file. The firmware should then convert these X/Y coordinates (which the printer still see as a plan) to new X/Y/Z/A/B coordinates to re-create the sphere in the printer space.

                                Frédéric

                                deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply 11 Jul 2019, 05:49 Reply Quote 0
                                • deckingmanundefined
                                  deckingman @fma
                                  last edited by 11 Jul 2019, 05:49

                                  @fma Have you thought this through? You'll need to tilt the head, not the bed. Otherwise the part will fall off. To start the sphere, the print head will need to be tilted and positioned such that it is inside the sphere which could be difficult if the part is solid. If you start with the head outside the sphere, then the head will need to be below the bed. Half way up the sphere, you'll need to switch the head from inside to outside.

                                  Ian
                                  https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                  https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • undefined
                                    fma
                                    last edited by 11 Jul 2019, 06:12

                                    There is no problem to tilt the bed +-35°, the part won't fall, as it is very thin compare to its width. I've seen people putting their (small) printer upside down while printing!

                                    The sphere will be printed from outside, this way:

                                    BB-8 panel

                                    The bed rotations would be inside the sphere, more or less at the flat bed height (flat bed which won't exist anymore). So, the hotend have to raise while the bed tilts.

                                    BTW, I plan to make a sphercial bed, so there is no need for supports. This bed can be 3D-printing, and by adding a raft for each print, can be re-used several times, giving very good adhesion.

                                    Frédéric

                                    deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply 11 Jul 2019, 09:05 Reply Quote 0
                                    • ?
                                      A Former User
                                      last edited by 11 Jul 2019, 06:13

                                      One concern with rotating the part might be that you loose (or vary) the force of gravity to help squish the layers as well, but if parts fall off then bed adhesion might be worth looking into in any case.

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                                      • undefined
                                        fma
                                        last edited by 11 Jul 2019, 06:22

                                        I don't think gravity plays a big role in layer adhesion; it is more a matter of temperature and speed... And this part will have no strenth on it, so even if layer adhesion is bad, this is not a problem. The goal is 1) save time and filament 2) give a nice finish 3) have fun while designing the printing process 😉

                                        Frédéric

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                                        • ?
                                          A Former User
                                          last edited by 11 Jul 2019, 06:33

                                          When printing in a xy plane as you will be doing its at least a constant force, I'm just relaying some of the stuff I've read with regards to "true" 5-axis printing.

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