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Continuous vertical lines on shell

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    Phaedrux Moderator @Diamondback
    last edited by 15 Jul 2019, 18:29

    @diamondback said in Continuous vertical lines on shell:

    I'm not quite sure how I would relate the line pitch to the belt pitch, any tips?

    The belt pitch is likely 2mm. Is the distance between ridges also 2mm?

    Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Jul 2019, 19:06 Reply Quote 0
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      Diamondback @Phaedrux
      last edited by 15 Jul 2019, 19:06

      @phaedrux said in Continuous vertical lines on shell:

      @diamondback said in Continuous vertical lines on shell:

      I'm not quite sure how I would relate the line pitch to the belt pitch, any tips?

      The belt pitch is likely 2mm. Is the distance between ridges also 2mm?

      The pitch seems to be something like 1.2mm (averaged over 7 peaks), hard to measure...

      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Jul 2019, 19:47 Reply Quote 0
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        petrzmax
        last edited by 15 Jul 2019, 19:15

        I have measured mine and it was the same distance which You measured.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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          nophead @Diamondback
          last edited by 15 Jul 2019, 19:47

          @diamondback How many teeth on your pulleys?

          If it isn't related to belt pitch then perhaps motor steps.

          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Jul 2019, 21:04 Reply Quote 0
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            Diamondback @nophead
            last edited by 15 Jul 2019, 21:04

            @nophead said in Continuous vertical lines on shell:

            @diamondback How many teeth on your pulleys?

            If it isn't related to belt pitch then perhaps motor steps.

            Both idler and pulley have 20 teeth on both axis.

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              petrzmax
              last edited by 15 Jul 2019, 23:06

              I have found the solution. You need to use teeth idlers instead of flat.

              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Jul 2019, 23:26 Reply Quote 0
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                Diamondback @petrzmax
                last edited by 15 Jul 2019, 23:26

                @petrzmax said in Continuous vertical lines on shell:

                I have found the solution. You need to use teeth idlers instead of flat.

                Glad this worked for you 🙂 I'm in the middle of switching my idler to a toothed one as well, need to fabricate a custom screw first though, the idler is 5mm ID and the attachment is an M4 screw....

                undefined 1 Reply Last reply 16 Jul 2019, 09:06 Reply Quote 0
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                  petrzmax @Diamondback
                  last edited by petrzmax 16 Jul 2019, 09:06

                  @diamondback I'm in fabricating phase aswell. The research I made told me that it should make ghosting less visible and get rid of this lines. Unfortunatelly i have not standard derlin idlers so I will need to print idlers. I hope they will be good quality. If they will not I will need to buy metal ones and redesigns some parts which I'm trying to avoid.

                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 16 Jul 2019, 09:13 Reply Quote 0
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                    nophead @petrzmax
                    last edited by 16 Jul 2019, 09:13

                    @petrzmax This is how I first solved the problem: http://hydraraptor.blogspot.com/2011/06/half-belt-hack.html

                    For Mendel90 I just put a half twist in the return path of the belt because toothed idlers were not commonly available then.

                    0_1563268339458_x_axis_assembly.png

                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 16 Jul 2019, 09:51 Reply Quote 0
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                      petrzmax @nophead
                      last edited by 16 Jul 2019, 09:51

                      @nophead Thanks for the idea! I will try to give it a go, but I'm on CoreXY and ther might be a problem with twisting them. Never tried twisting them before 🙂

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                        nophead
                        last edited by 16 Jul 2019, 10:04

                        @petrzmax Not sure it will work on core XY because the you can only put the twist in a stretch that doesn't contract to a short length, ideally constant length like above. I am working on an H-bot design and concluded I needed toothed idlers.

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                          Diamondback
                          last edited by Diamondback 16 Jul 2019, 10:29

                          Ok, got my idler changed now to the correct toothed one, but that didn't do much I'm afraid...
                          So back to extrusion related issue I guess. Anything I can try to adjust software wise before taking the Titan apart?

                          Maybe someone can take a look at my config.g in the first post and see if there are any obvious issues

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                            nophead
                            last edited by 16 Jul 2019, 10:44

                            If you print something with different outside dimensions do you ever get diagonal lines? I can't see how the extruder can create vertically aligned striations.

                            How many shells are you using. With single wall I sometimes see striations from the infill pattern through the wall.

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                              mrehorstdmd
                              last edited by 16 Jul 2019, 11:02

                              I use F608 bearings for idlers in my corexy printer with the toothed side of the belts riding on them. I get no such vertical ridges. Maybe you need to use larger diameter pulleys. F608s are 22 mm in diameter.

                              https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

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                                Diamondback
                                last edited by 16 Jul 2019, 11:08

                                @nophead said in Continuous vertical lines on shell:

                                If you print something with different outside dimensions do you ever get diagonal lines? I can't see how the extruder can create vertically aligned striations.

                                How many shells are you using. With single wall I sometimes see striations from the infill pattern through the wall.

                                I'm usually using 3 shells at .4mm, the lines are always perfectly vertical, sometimes there are diagonal lines on top of that, not sure where those comes from.

                                undefined 1 Reply Last reply 16 Jul 2019, 14:36 Reply Quote 0
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                                  nophead @Diamondback
                                  last edited by 16 Jul 2019, 14:36

                                  @diamondback What happens on diagonal sides?

                                  If it was somehow a flow rate variability synchronised between layers I would expect it to look exactly the same.

                                  If it is due to variations in linear speed due to motors or belts I would expect the pitch to increase on a diagonal because each axis is moving slower for the same linear speed.

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                                    Diamondback
                                    last edited by 17 Jul 2019, 00:43

                                    @nophead said in Continuous vertical lines on shell:

                                    @diamondback What happens on diagonal sides?

                                    If it was somehow a flow rate variability synchronised between layers I would expect it to look exactly the same.

                                    If it is due to variations in linear speed due to motors or belts I would expect the pitch to increase on a diagonal because each axis is moving slower for the same linear speed.

                                    Just tested, straight vs diagonal do differ quite a lot. I'm currently test printing something without micro step interpolation.

                                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 17 Jul 2019, 11:42 Reply Quote 0
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                                      petrzmax @Diamondback
                                      last edited by 17 Jul 2019, 11:42

                                      @diamondback Let us know about the results! 😉

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                                        Diamondback
                                        last edited by 17 Jul 2019, 12:13

                                        Nope, no changes... Tried different micro stepping for both axis and the extruder, with and without interpolation, nothing...
                                        Is it possible that my motors are just crap? (or not well selected for the task at hand)
                                        I'm running these steppers on both axis and the E3D Pancake on the Titan.
                                        (Used to be one of the ACT ones as well but I significantly reduced the X carriage weight a while ago and switched to that small stepper then)

                                        ACT 17HS5425

                                        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 17 Jul 2019, 13:31 Reply Quote 0
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                                          deckingman @Diamondback
                                          last edited by deckingman 17 Jul 2019, 13:31

                                          @diamondback said in Continuous vertical lines on shell:

                                          Is it possible that my motors are just crap?

                                          Sort of, yes. How tight are your belts? The reason I ask is that as a general rule, stepper motor bearings aren't realy designed to take the high lateral loading that we tend to apply. There is a real temptation to apply the highest belt tension that we think we can get away with, or that the belt manufacturer recommends. However, with this sort of loading, it is eminently possible that some degree of "stiction" (for want of a better word) of the shaft can occur. It may not be much but it could be enough that the requirement for higher torque, coupled with the lower torque available for partial full steps (due to micro-stepping) might mean that the motor will have a tendency to jump to the nearest full step. i.e. small (say single digit) micro steps might not necessary translate into any physical movement of the motor.

                                          This is more a theory on part than any sort of scientific fact. Although, when I first built my printer, I was a bit too enthusiastic with the belt tension and had to use very high motor currents to get any sort of reasonable speed.

                                          But it would be easy enough to slacken the belt tension a bit just to see if makes any difference. Worth a try I'd have thought.

                                          Ian
                                          https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                          https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                                          undefined undefined undefined 3 Replies Last reply 17 Jul 2019, 14:28 Reply Quote 0
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