Vertical lines in printed parts...



  • Hello all,

    I'm Pepe, nice to meet you. I have a modified Ender 3 with a Duet Wifi 1.04 updated to 2.03 (2019-06-13b2), but I have this problem from older versions (at least from 2.02RCX)

    I have a really good precission in the 3d printing but I have something like ringing that I cannot remove at normal speeds (80mm/s, 40mm/s...)

    I made a high tower to check the Z but the tower only present the problem that I'm talking (something like ringing):

    I took two photos with some tests:

    alt text

    I tried to many things in the software, but the only thing that remove the "ghost" is slow down the print (25% of 80mm/s... with Speed factor in Duet Web panel).

    The outer faces in the cube are printed at 64mm/s (Simplify3D applies a slow factor).

    My machine mods are the next one:
    -V6 clon with original titanium barrel (original ender3 heater/sensor)
    -Trianglelab BMG
    -Precision Piezo Orion
    -XY Motech motors 0.9deg from e3d
    -Z dual motors 0.9deg from e3d
    -E motor is the original E motor from Ender 3 (I tried with the other motors with same results)
    -Duet Wifi

    This is the last configuration I tried:

    config.g
    ; General preferences
    G90 ; Send absolute coordinates...
    M83 ; ...but relative extruder moves

    ; Drives
    M569 P0 S0 ; Drive 0 goes backwards
    M569 P1 S0 ; Drive 1 goes backwards
    M569 P2 S1 ; Drive 2 goes forwards
    M569 P3 S1 ; Drive 3 goes forwards
    M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1 ; Configure microstepping with interpolation
    M92 X160 Y160 Z800 E6560 ; Set steps per mm 406 6459
    ;M92 X80 Y80 Z400 E93 ; Originals from Ender 3
    ;PEPE JERK M566 X600 Y600 Z80 E600 ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
    M566 X600 Y600 Z80 E2000 ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
    M203 X9000 Y9000 Z1000 E7200 ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
    ;PEPE ACCEL M201 X2000 Y2000 Z300 E3000 ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
    M201 X2000 Y2000 Z500 E20000 ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
    ;M906 X600 Y800 Z600 E600 I10 ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
    ;M906 X1250 Y1250 Z800 E600 I10 ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
    M906 X1250 Y1250 Z600 E800 I10 ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
    M84 S10 ; Set idle timeout
    ;M593 F40 ; cancel ringing at 40Hz

    M569 F1 P1 ;Pitch mode Y motor
    M569 F1 P2 ;Pitch mode Z motor
    M569 F1 P3 ;Pitch mode E motor

    ; Axis Limits
    M208 X-5.5 Y0 Z0 S1 ; Set axis minima
    M208 X244 Y220 Z255 S0 ; Set axis maxima

    ; Endstops
    M574 X1 Y1 S3 ; Set endstops controlled by motor load detection
    M915 X Y S30 R2 F1 ; Set X and Y to sensitivity 1, when stall home XY and resume print, unfiltered so it does not takes 4 steps to figure out it has stalled
    ;M915 X Y S1 R3 F0 ; Set X and Y to sensitivity 1, when stall home XY and resume print, unfiltered so it does not takes 4 steps to figure out it has stalled

    ; Filament Sensor
    M591 D0 P2 C3 S1 ;Filament Sensor E0

    ; Z-Probe
    M574 Z1 S2 ; Set endstops controlled by probe
    ;M307 H3 A-1 C-1 D-1 ; Disable heater on PWM channel for BLTouch
    ;M558 P1 I1 R0.4 F300 H2 T6000; ; Set Z probe type to analogico no filtered and the dive height + speeds
    M558 P8 I1 R0.5 F550 H2 T6000 A1; ; Set Z probe type to digital no filtered and the dive height + speeds
    ;G31 P471 X0 Y0 Z-1 ; Set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height
    G31 P100 X0 Y0 Z-0.075 ; Set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height DIGITAL
    M557 X10:225 Y10:210 S20 ; Define mesh grid

    ; Heaters
    M305 S"Bed" P0 T100000 B4725 C7.060000e-8 R4700
    ;M305 S"Hotend 0" P0 T100000 B4355 C0 R4700 ; Set thermistor + ADC parameters for heater 0 4138
    M143 H0 S120 ; Set temperature limit for heater 0 to 120C
    M305 S"HotEnd 0" P1 T100000 B4725 C7.060000e-8 R4700 ; Set thermistor + ADC parameters for heater 1 C7.060000e-8
    M143 H1 S260 ; Set temperature limit for heater 1 to 280C

    ; Fans
    ;M106 P0 S0 I0 F500 H-1 ; Set fan 0 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned off
    ;M106 P1 S1 I0 F500 H1 T45 ; Set fan 1 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned on
    ;M106 P2 S1 I0 F500 H1 T45 ; Set fan 2 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned on
    M106 P0 S0 I0 F10 H-1 X0.5 C"Layer Fan" ; Set fan 0 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned off
    M106 P1 I0 F25000 S0.8 T50 H1:2 C"Hotend Fan" ; Hot end Fan
    M106 P2 I1 T35:65 H100:101:102 L0.3 F25000 S0.3 C"Duet Fan" ; Duet Fan

    ; Tools
    ;M563 P0 D0 H1 ; Define tool 0
    M563 P0 D0 H1 F0
    G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0 ; Set tool 0 axis offsets
    G10 P0 R0 S0 ; Set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C

    ;Pressure Advance
    M572 E0 S0.1

    ; Automatic power saving
    M911 S10 R11 P"M913 X0 Y0 G91 M83 G1 Z3 E-5 F1000" ; Set voltage thresholds and actions to run on power loss

    ; Custom settings are not configured

    I tried with differents M906 (800 for XY) without differences...
    I also tried with different microsteping (in all motors),

    The ;PEPE lines are my original values after try to delete the error.

    I don't know if somethis is wrong with the configuration, maybe I need to change bearings and pulleys (stock ender 3 20 tooth)

    I don't know if it's an extruder issue.

    If I can help you to find my errors... I will do whatever you want!!

    Really thanks for reading and sorry for my not so much correct english writing 😞



  • Perhaps a loose belt.

    Try reducing your acceleration.



  • Try increasing the idle factor percent to 30-50, not sure, but it might help.



  • @phaedrux I tried with default accelerations for ender 3 with the same problem (X500 Y500). Also I checked the belts tension...

    With default motherboard I was using X1500 Y1500 with really goods results.

    @timothyz I will try it this afternoon, thank you. I remember that I start my setup with I40, same result after all but I need to check again xD

    I will try also to use the stock extruder this afternoon...


  • administrators

    It looks to me like ringing with little or no damping, because of the way that the lines are parallel to the arms of the Y. There are two things you can do:

    1. Try to reduce the amount of ringing, or at least increase its frequency. Check that the belts are taut. Check that the XY motor currents you set with M906 are between 60% and 85% of the rated current of the motors. On the Duet WiFi the motor currents you set are rounded down to a multiple of 100mA.

    2. Measure the frequency of the ringing and use dynamic acceleration adjustment to try to cancel it. See https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode?revisionid=HEAD#Section_M593_Configure_Dynamic_Acceleration_Adjustment.



  • For me it seems to be two different problem at the same time:

    • Ringing for sure
    • on the left cube the ringing seems to be superimposed with purely vertical lines which are equal distance, which does not seem to fade away as we get further from the last corner.

    The first one might be a loose belt (too elastic belt?), insufficent rigidity of the printer frame, too much acceleration and or jerk, too heavy print head (or any combination of these)

    The second one might be some resonance, faulty motor or belt idler, etc.



  • @dc42 Thanks a lot, I will try to proceed with your message.

    To add more info, I'm using these motors in XY: https://e3d-online.com/motors-high-torque-motor

    As far as I know, I need to set M906 to X1300 Y1300 (77% of rated current, it is correct??). If it's correct, I usually work with 1250mA (-> 1200), but it's the same situation with 800mA

    I tried the M593 F40 because I measured it at this frequency (but I need to check it properly).

    @denke the belts are the stock belts from ender3. The frame is Ender 3 frame. My print head is not so heavy (bowden), I work specifically in this way.

    I tried with stock acceleration and stock jerk with same issues :<



  • I tried today some things without goods results...

    Belts are with correct tension, changed to stock extruder, tested with really low acceleration (lower ringing but same vertical lines).

    I see those threads that maybe can help to check some things:

    https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/11192/reduced-quality-prints-from-marlin-to-duet-2-wifi/11
    https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/11258/continuous-vertical-lines-on-shell/41

    I designed another fan layer conduct to remove some detected vibrations with the actual one (will add weight to X but I think it's better than actual vibrations).

    I will keep you updated tomorrow πŸ™‚

    Thank you and good night



  • Ok, I have another question (not so much related).

    I tunned the Hotend and bed PID and now the duet make a little noise (and constantly turn on and off a red led) related to bed heating, Is it normal and safe?

    The temperatures are now a lot of stable, but I don't know if it's safe :<

    Edit: The sound is not from duet, is from my PSU... can it survive? xD



  • What firmware does the ender 3 run stock? If it’s marlin, the default jerk values will not be equal on both systems. Reprapfirmware implements jerk in a different way. Marlin (iirc) uses half the stated jerk value for sharp abrupt direction changes.

    If the marlin defaults had a jerk of 10 mm/s, you will get closer to the same behaviour by setting m566 to 5 mm/s (300 mm/min).

    This may not be the entirety of your problem, tho.



  • The stock is Marlin.

    I've looking old printed parts and I see that the vertical lines are from the start of the times, so I see the lines recently (maybe due new printing speeds) but are not new in my printer (do not start with Duet).

    I bought new 16t pulleys and idlers for X and Y and maybe I need to change from V wheels to linear guides to completly avoid the vertical lines... or maybe print slowly is enough xD

    I solved the problem with the bed heater (commented in my last message), due a parameter in the configuration.

    Thank you for your help to all of you, I will keep pushing and fighting! πŸ™‚


  • administrators

    @itek09 said in Vertical lines in printed parts...:

    Ok, I have another question (not so much related).

    I tunned the Hotend and bed PID and now the duet make a little noise (and constantly turn on and off a red led) related to bed heating, Is it normal and safe?

    The temperatures are now a lot of stable, but I don't know if it's safe :<

    Edit: The sound is not from duet, is from my PSU... can it survive? xD

    The sound is the PWM to the bed heater. It shouldn't harm your PSU, but you can increase it to 200Hz if it worries you. Locate the M307 H0 command (it will be in config-override.g if you saved the heater tuning using M500, or in config.g if you edited it manually) and add F200 to it.



  • @itek09 said in Vertical lines in printed parts...:

    I bought new 16t pulleys and idlers for X and Y

    are the idlers toothed? the original idlers on the ender 3 are large so non tooth is ok.
    but if you went with 16t pulley you might have gone with smaller idlers.


 

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