Piezo as Z Endstop & as Z-Probe config

sinned6915

I thought I understood this, but re-reading the GCode docs and the posts here, I am really confused and think I am doing this all wrong.

I have a Precision Piezo Universal 2.75 working with my hotend mounted piezo sensor board.

I am using the piezo as both endstop and probe. I did ask in the PP thread on reprap.org initially, and my current setting for M558 is per Idris' suggestions. They seem to work.

I have been preheating to 130C and then using G28 X Y Z to home, then G29 to mesh bed level.

I feel like i am getting inconsistent results all around for both Z height and bed leveling. Below is the probe portion of my config.g.

I don't understand the G31 P500 trigger value. Can someone explain what that P value is for, and relative to what? I am trying to use the piezo in digital sensing mode. I dont think it matters, but I am on the LPC port of RRF2.03.
Should I be using G28 Z or G30 to set Z=0?
What method should I be using to mesh bed level ~~G28~~ G29 or G32? This is a gantry style Cartesian printer.
EDIT: fix typo
What makes no sense, is if I G28 Z, then do
G561
G30 S-1

it reports back with a value that is NOT 0.0, it might be 0.084mm or 0.061mm. neither of those numbers make any sense.

Thanks in advance

sinneD

; Z-Probe
M574 Z1 S2
; Set endstops controlled by probe
M558 P8 I1 R0.4 H2 F600 T6000
; Suggestions from Idris at PP, change to more sensitive setting, reduce travel and speed from
; P8 set Z probe to digital, H2 2mm dive height, R0.4 0.4 sec probe recovery time
; T1000 Z speed 100 mm/min G600 100mm/min probe travel speed and set as Z endstop
;
G31 P500 X0 Y0 Z0.08
; Set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height
; G31 Pnnn Xnnn Ynnn Znnn Cnnn Snnn
; Pnnn Trigger value
; Xnnn Probe X offset1
; Ynnn Probe Y offset1
; Znnn Trigger Z height
; Cnnn Temperature coefficient2
; Snnn Calibration temperature2
; Tnnn Z probe type to which these parameters apply, defaults to the current
; Z probe type as defined by M558 P parameter

oliof

the P value is the trigger value, which is mostly important for probes like the smart effector that don't report just whether they are triggered or not. modifying it for those probes can be used to fine tune the trigger sensitivity. For a digital probe that can just report on/off, any value greater 0 should be fine, but as the normal range is between 0 and 1000, 500 is a customary setting
You should use G30 to establish a Z0 measurement with your probe. You could still doe G28 Z with a normal z endstop if you were so inclined. See https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/ConfiguringRepRapFirmwareCartesianPrinter#Section_Homing_Z for details.
G28 only does the bare homing. It does not do mesh bed leveling.G32 runs whatever you have defined in bed.g -- see https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/ConfiguringRepRapFirmwareCartesianPrinter#Section_Bed_probing_file for an example. Any difference between G28 Z and G30 S-1 can be from a variety of factors: What's in your homez.g, how good your probe mounts are, rigidity of your print head, sensitivity settings on the PP universal board, whether you're heating your bed or not, etc. So a good first step is to share your homez.g with us, and we can take it from there.

(PS I am very interested in this as I have the PP piezo end stops up as my next modification for my cartesian printer ...)

sinned6915

@oliof

thanks for the explanation of the P value. I could not find it anywhere.
after reading your response, I went back and reread my files - i copied them below. I used the online configurator initially but then tweaked them.

my homez.g DOES use G30. So if I manually issue a 'G28 Z' in the command window, does it actually run homez.g macro or do a G28?

Significant typo in my original post, I meant to ask G29 or G32 for mesh bed leveling.

If I understand your reply, G32 will actually call the bed.g macro.

Is that correct?

; homez.g
; called to home the Z axis
;
; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v2 on Thu May 02 2019 10:56:01 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time)
M290 S0 R0 ; clear baby steps
G91 ; relative positioning
G1 Z5 F6000 S2 ; lift Z relative to current position
G90 ; absolute positioning
G1 X150 Y150 F6000 ; go to first probe point
G30 ; home Z by probing the bed

; Uncomment the following lines to lift Z after probing
G91 ; relative positioning
G1 S2 Z5 F100 ; lift Z relative to current position
G90 ; absolute positioning

Here is my bed.g -
; bed.g
; called to perform automatic bed compensation via G32
;
; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v2 on Thu May 02 2019 10:56:01 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time)
M561 ; clear any bed transform
M290 S0 R0 ; clear baby steps
G29 ; probe the bed and enable compensation

here is my homeall.g-
; homeall.g
; called to home all axes
;
; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v2 on Thu May 02 2019 10:56:01 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time)
M290 S0 R0 ; clear baby steps
G91 ; relative positioning

G1 Z5 F2000 S2 ; lift Z relative to current position
; move quickly to X and Y axis endstops and stop there (first pass)
G1 S1 X300 Y300 F6000 ; djp edit change to make MAX endstops
G1 X5 Y5 F2000 ; go back a few mm
; move slowly to X and Y axis endstops once more (second pass)
G1 S1 X300 Y300 F720 ; djp edit change to make MAX endstops
G90 ; absolute positioning
G1 X150 Y150 F6000 ; go to first bed probe point and home Z
G30 ; home Z by probing the bed

; Uncomment the following lines to lift Z after probing
G91 ; relative positioning
G1 S2 Z1 F500 ; lift Z relative to current position
G90 ; absolute positioning

Moriquendi

G28 simply calls the relevant macro home(x).g , all the actual homing is handled in the macro.

G32 calls the bed.g macro if it's present.

Idris

oliof

Your G28 Z effectively uses the z probe to probe the bed at what I assume is the center of the bed, so in your case there is no difference between calling G28 Z and calling G30at that xy coordinate.

Your bed.g removes any compensation and then runs G29. So in your particular case, G32 and G29 do the same kind of bed leveling and only differ in guaranteeing you start from uncompensated machine coordinates (G32) or from user coordinates (G29), which may or may not have compensation enabled depending on the machine state before you call G29

PS: What's your M557?

Phaedrux

@sinned6915 said in Piezo as Z Endstop & as Z-Probe config:

; move quickly to X and Y axis endstops and stop there (first pass)
G1 S1 X300 Y300 F6000 ; djp edit change to make MAX endstops
G1 X5 Y5 F2000 ; go back a few mm
; move slowly to X and Y axis endstops once more (second pass)
G1 S1 X300 Y300 F720 ; djp edit change to make MAX endstops

You need to change the direction of move that backs away from the endstop to negative.

Where are you loading the heightmap? Do you have G32 in your slicer start code?

Have you measured the trigger height of the probe yet?
https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Test_and_calibrate_the_Z_probe

sinned6915

@oliof this is my M557-

M557 X5:285 Y5:285 S70 ; Define mesh grid

@phaedrux
thanks for catching the minus sign in the homing routine. i am not sure how it escaped me.

trigger height of probe- i preheated to 130, homed Z then raised to a height of known feeler gauge. Then jogged to meet the gauge and took the difference as the trigger value. Used that in

G31 P500 X0 Y0 Z0.08                      ; Set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height

Then printing a single layer and measuring with micrometer to confirm/adjust when at temp. I preheat and probe at 130 to hopefully avoid any influence of and residual plastic that might be on the nozzle.

G32- no i am not. I thought that when you ran mesh bed level compensation, it stored the mesh and applied it to until you either homed axis again or re-mesh leveled.

When I print, I execute a macro to preheat and mesh bed level-

M80
M106 S0
M104 S130
G28 X Y
M109 S130
G28 Z
G29 
G1 X150 Y150 Z5 F3500

then I start the print and watch the first layer go down. if i am going to print another file, i dont usually re-mesh level.

Phaedrux

@sinned6915 said in Piezo as Z Endstop & as Z-Probe config:

trigger height of probe- i preheated to 130, homed Z then raised to a height of known feeler gauge. Then jogged to meet the gauge and took the difference as the trigger value. Used that in

I would recommend following the procedure outlined in the previous link. This could be a major source of inconsistencies.

@sinned6915 said in Piezo as Z Endstop & as Z-Probe config:

G32- no i am not. I thought that when you ran mesh bed level compensation, it stored the mesh and applied it to until you either homed axis again or re-mesh leveled.

The way you're doing it is fine. If you're running G29 before every print it will be active for that print. It's also possible to save a heightmap and reload it rather than probing each time. I wasn't sure which way you were doing it.

sinned6915

Here is my height map and reformatted .csv - i reordered the rows and populated the cells with singular data

alt text

I will re-test the probe and follow the procedure that you linked. I did not mean to sound that I was disrespecting or ignoring your advice, I have not been back at the printer to do it yet. I will do after dinner.

Do I need to do it in a 2-step process like I was doing though? at 130C then tweaking at print temp ~200C?

Phaedrux

@sinned6915 said in Piezo as Z Endstop & as Z-Probe config:

I did not mean to sound that I was disrespecting or ignoring your advice, I have not been back at the printer to do it yet. I will do after dinner.

No worries at all. The method you described is more complicated than it needed to be. The firmware has a facility for telling you exactly what the trigger height it

Since you're using a piezo probe that uses the nozzle to contact the bed, and since it needs to be heated up anyway to keep plastic dribble from interfering, I would suggest that you heat up to print temperature for both measuring the trigger height and doing the actual homing. You can even add the warm up and weight commands to the homing files so that it's done automatically.

grizewald

@sinned6915 I'm going to disagree with Phaedrux here.

I use a Precision Piezo Orion on my CoreXY printer and trying to home or probe with any plastic on the nozzle, regardless of temperature, leads to inconsistencies. The Orion is very sensitive and even molten plastic leads to the Z homing point being set too high.

Therefore, I always ensure that my nozzle is completely free of plastic before starting a new print. If there is any plastic left from the previous print, I briefly heat up the nozzle to printing temperature and wipe off any dribble with a paper towel and continue wiping until the nozzle cools down to below ooze temperature.

My starting g-code for each print heats the nozzle to 130C and the bed to 60C and when the temperatures are reached, it homes X, Y and Z, performs two probes to level the bed in the X direction between the two lead screws which drive it, re-homes Z and then loads the saved height map.

Once that is done it sets the heaters to printing temperatures before the actual print code begins.

My end g-code performs a 1.5mm retract before moving the head away from the print and this normally leaves the print head free of plastic, ready for the next print.

Creating the height map is something I do via a macro when needed. I create the height map at 130/60C and it works just fine. If there is any expansion after 130/60C, it is small enough to be of no consequence.

Phaedrux

@grizewald said in Piezo as Z Endstop & as Z-Probe config:

Therefore, I always ensure that my nozzle is completely free of plastic before starting a new print. If there is any plastic left from the previous print, I briefly heat up the nozzle to printing temperature and wipe off any dribble with a paper towel and continue wiping until the nozzle cools down to below ooze temperature.

Even better, thanks for chiming in with actual experience.

grizewald

@phaedrux said in Piezo as Z Endstop & as Z-Probe config:

@grizewald said in Piezo as Z Endstop & as Z-Probe config:

Therefore, I always ensure that my nozzle is completely free of plastic before starting a new print. If there is any plastic left from the previous print, I briefly heat up the nozzle to printing temperature and wipe off any dribble with a paper towel and continue wiping until the nozzle cools down to below ooze temperature.

Even better, thanks for chiming in with actual experience.

A pleasure!

I'm really pleased with how accurate and repeatable piezo probing is. Having the print head as the probe is great for avoiding the issues with a separate probe and the offsets that implies.

It's probably not such a great solution when the head moves in Z instead of the bed, but for a CoreXY it's probably the ultimate solution.

I'm surprised you didn't use it on your D-Bot.

Phaedrux

@grizewald said in Piezo as Z Endstop & as Z-Probe config:

I'm surprised you didn't use it on your D-Bot.

I very nearly did. I have a precision piezo kit (pre-orion) that I never got around to installing. The options for print carriages at the time were slim and I couldn't find one I liked. I have a Titan Aero, so it's a little trickier. I eventually found a carriage I liked and customized it. The BLTouch has been alright after some growing pains.

sinned6915

I have been wrestling with this on and off now for like 2 weeks. I re-calibrated the trigger height as per the method that @Phaedrux refered me to.

I still do not believe that mesh bed compensation is being applied correctly. With Marlin, I could watch the Z motor/pulleys move as the carriage moved around the bed.

I do not see that at all with RRF. It does not seem that the Z level adjusts as the printer lays down the first layer watching the screw. I even put a tell-tale on the end of the screw in case the motion was so small.

I feel like I am missing something to enable the compensation.

I am re-reading this page and trying to follow it all to the letter. https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Using_mesh_bed_compensation

I preheat, clean the nozzle and then home Z to establish the Z=0 datum. This is the 'middle point' of the mesh at the bed center.
M557 is defined in config.g as from 5 to 285 (total of 280mm) probe every 70mm, so 5 points in X and Y. I do not have M376 in there yet.

M557 X5:285 Y5:285 S70                   ; Define mesh grid

Then I enter G29 and the printer will probe the bed at the 5x5 grid.
The printer will report that the heightmap is saved. It used to automatically display it automatically, but something I did changed the behavior and I now have to manually go to the pulldown to display it.

Is this an indication that something is awry?

This is my homez.g if needed-

M561               ; clear any bed transform
M290 S0 R0         ; clear baby steps
G91                ; relative positioning
G1 Z5 F6000 S2     ; lift Z relative to current position
G90                ; absolute positioning
G1 X150 Y150 F6000 ; go to first probe point
G30                ; home Z by probing the bed

; Uncomment the following lines to lift Z after probing
G91                ; relative positioning
G1 S2 Z5 F100      ; lift Z relative to current position
G90                ; absolute positioning

This is my homeall.g

M561                    ; clear any transforms 
M290 S0    R0           ; clear baby steps
G91                     ; relative positioning
G1 Z5 F2000 S2          ; lift Z relative to current position
                        ; move quickly to X and Y axis endstops and stop there (first pass)
G1 S1 X300 Y300 F4800   ; djp edit change to make MAX endstops
G1 X-5 Y-5 F2000        ; go back a few mm
                        ; move slowly to X and Y axis endstops once more (second pass)
G1 S1 X300 Y300 F720    ; djp edit change to make MAX endstops 
G90                     ; absolute positioning
G1 X150 Y150 F4800      ; go to first bed probe point and home Z
G30                     ; home Z by probing the bed

; Uncomment the following lines to lift Z after probing
G91                    ; relative positioning
G1 S2 Z1 F500          ; lift Z relative to current position
G90                    ; absolute positioning

here is my bed.g

M561 ; clear any bed transform
M290 S0 R0 ; clear baby steps
G29  ; probe the bed and enable compensation

Do I misunderstand this? Should I be able to see my Z motion system actively changing to compensate for the bed out of level out-of-plane?

grizewald

There's no need to probe the bed for every print.

In my bed.g, I use G29 S1 to load and activate the stored map. This allows you to create a much more detailed map than 5 x 5 and save it. I refresh the map once in a while, but there is rarely any difference between the new and previous maps.

Are you executing a G32 so that bed.g is executed in your slicer's start code?

sinned6915

I only probe at every power on. I don't re-probe between prints

I am not using G32. I thought that was for Delta's.

Is it redundant with G29?

Phaedrux

G32 just runs bed.g.

What do you have in your slicer start gcode?

When G29 is run the mesh is probed and the results are saved, and compensation is made active.

G29 S1 will load the saved heightmap. So you should have that in your slicer start code after your G28.

You can send M122 to get a diagnostics report, look for a line saying compensation: mesh to indicate that it's active.

sinned6915

I currently don't have anything in my start gcode. I understood that the mesh bed compensation was active until you re-homed via G28.

EDIT: when I print, I use a macro to preheat, then home & level-

M80
M106 S0
M104 S130
G28 X Y
M109 S130
G28 Z
G29 
G1 X150 Y150 Z5 F3500

M122 shows-

=== Move ===
Hiccups: 0, FreeDm: 99, MinFreeDm: 63, MaxWait: 24240329ms
Bed compensation in use: mesh, comp offset 0.000

full listing is here- https://pastebin.com/HGviebvr

BTW: Is there a way to get more verbose output to the console? I wish that more info would get displayed to know what is going on.

Phaedrux

G28 won't clear G29 by default. Yours will because you have M561 at the start.

M122 shows mesh is active.

What does your heightmap image look like?

I think the best way to test if mesh compensation is effective is to print an STL like this once with mesh disabled and once with mesh enabled. The results should be better when it's enabled.

0_1565997501514_bedlevel_nozzle_0.4_200x200-0.3-0.8.stl