Hypercube Fusion movement help



  • Hi I have a Hypercube fusion that I am trying to finish off building and I am basically spinning my wheels and getting no where.

    I used the reprap configurator tool to generate the config files. I am useless when it comes to gcode and understanding the config side of things so please forgive me if I have set things wrong.

    I have set the Belts so that they are not slack but not over tight and make a boing noise when plucked gently and that I can manually move the carriage around without excessive force, I have also made sure that the carrige is level when moved to the back that it is flush from left to right as the instructions said. Plus my Hictop i3 belts are set to about the same sort of tension and that works so I am assuming it is right.

    Homing causes motors to make a grinding noise before starting to home even when motor current is set to 1300, once the carriage is moving it seems to be smooth and quite ( I assume it is the motors making a noise).

    X is homing in the right direction but Y Axis is always moving towards the front of the printer as where it needs to move to the rear.
    How can I change it so that it homes to the rear of the printer please ?

    Z Axis seems to home ok but doesn't realise that it is homed and tries to home for a few seconds is there a way to stop this ?

    Once I home the X & Z axis so I can then get manual movement control I can drop the Z axis (Bed) but then if I try and raise it back up the same amount it won't and only seems to do about a 1/4 of the movement. Then I can't move it back down more than it was moved up.

    I have attached my (Uploading 100%) config.g in the hope it might be of some help.

    If any more of my sys files are needed to help with these problems then please let me know.

    Thanks πŸ™‚



  • see
    https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/ConfiguringRepRapFirmwareCoreXYPrinter

    i think you need to swap x and y motor cables and reverse direction.

    do you have a probe or a z endstop?
    at the moment you have z endstop configured but also a probe.

    your thermistros are wrong. you got to enter the correct Beta value. B4138 is incorrect.


  • Moderator

    If the corexy link above doesn't get you sorted out please post your homing files as well.



  • @Veti thanks I did what you said with the X & Y axis and also changed the firmware for the movements and it is working.

    I also checked @Phaedrux config from his H - bot which I am very jealous of 😝 but it confused me as I am not sure if I can use parts of it.

    Anyway I changed the motor settings from 1200 down to 1100 or 1000 and it still moves nice and smooth and quite. But is there a way to speed up the Z axis movement as it is very slow.

    I am using 12mm leadscrews single start and the config got changed to 266.7 I believe to match as I totally missed that in the config tool at the start.

    Also I turned on the heated bed and set it to 70c then kept using the temp gun to test check it and it was always just under 5c from what was being displayed, so how can I change it so that it is closer to what it is reading or is this acceptable?

    Sorry for all the questions but I am truly grateful for the help.


  • Moderator

    @RAM The config.g you posted is set for RepRapFirmware version 1.21, which is quite old now. I can't see anywhere where you say what firmware version you actually have; this may effect the config.g settings. Please can you send M115 and post the response.

    If you haven't changed the thermistor settings (temperature monitoring) as @Veti suggested, you'll be using the default settings, so this will be inaccurate. You need to know what thermistors you have for the bed and hot end (make, model and/or specification), and set them accordingly. You can do this in the RRF config tool, too.

    Ian



  • @droftarts I did go through the firmware configuration tool again as there was a few changes to be made, I still have the same firmware, apart from changing motor directions I also set the thermositor on the heated bed and hot end to 100k which is what they are. The exact bed I am using is a creality cr10s pro bed and the hot end is a triangle labs clone of the E3D hot end which uses the same 100k thermositor.

    I did try to upgrade the firmware to the latest V3 but for some reason it wouldn't update. I followed the instructions but it just wouldn't play ball.

    If it will make that much difference I will try and upgrade it again.

    I haven't installed the hot end yet or the DC42 ir sensor as I am having to make a couple of modifications as there doesn't seem to be a mount for it for the hypercube fusion.



  • @RAM I would concentrate on updating to 2.0.5 first.
    Although RRF3 is stable, it would take less work to get your config up and running.



  • @RAM said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

    The exact bed I am using is a creality cr10s pro bed and the hot end is a triangle labs clone of the E3D hot end which uses the same 100k thermositor.

    100k thermistor does not mean much. There a quite a few different ones.
    the important values are the Beta and C value in which they differ.

    The Cr10s uses EPCOS 100k and Trianlelab now seems to be using ATC Semitec 104GT-2.
    They are different and will report different temperatures.


  • Moderator

    @RAM said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

    I still have the same firmware

    Sorry, but you still haven't said what firmware you are running at the moment! Send M115 to the Duet and post the response.

    I did try to upgrade the firmware to the latest V3

    You should be able to update to RRF 3.0, but not directly to 3.0.1beta1. From the update notes https://github.com/dc42/RepRapFirmware/blob/v3-dev/WHATS_NEW_RRF3.md#reprapfirmware-301beta1 :

    You cannot upgrade a Duet WiFi, Ethernet or Maestro direct to this release from RRF 1.x or 2.x because the firmware binary is too large for the old IAP. You must upgrade to version 3.0 first, then from 3.0 you can upgrade to this release.

    However, updating to RRF 3 will need a number of changes to your config.g, though the configurator should be able to handle this. As @jay_s_uk suggests, perhaps concentrate on getting updated and running on 2.05.

    See the response from @Veti regarding thermistors. A '100k thermistor' just means that at 25ΒΊC, the resistance is 100k ohms, which is standard. However, different brands and models of thermistors can report wildly different resistances at specific temperatures. The Beta and C values allow you to work out what the temperature is accurately, for a specific thermistor. So knowing the brand and model of thermistor, so you can look up the Beta and C values, is important if you want your temperature reporting to be accurate.

    Ian



  • @Veti I got the board updated to 2.0.5 as suggested.

    M115
    FIRMWARE_NAME: RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet FIRMWARE_VERSION: 2.05 ELECTRONICS: Duet WiFi 1.02 or later FIRMWARE_DATE: 2019-12-13b1

    Should I run through the RRF config tool again now that I have a later firmware?

    The hotend thermistor I am going to be using is this Thermistor

    The reason I will be using that Thermistor is because it is long enough as my frame is 1 meter tall and the electronics are all going to be housed in the bottom.

    I did try to look to see if they had the Beta and C values for both the hotend and bed thermistor but I can't seem to see them in the descriptions or the tech specs that they have on aliexpress.

    Thanks also to @droftarts @jay_s_uk @Phaedrux for the replies the help is appreciated.



  • After digging around on the internet for a couple of hours I think I found what type both thermistors are but I cant find the C value for them and I am not sure which to pick from the list in the RRF configuration tool as there seems 2 that have similar Beta settings
    The ones I think the thermistors are these 100K ohm NTC 3950FB



  • @RAM said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

    The ones I think the thermistors are these 100K ohm NTC 3950FB

    That would be B3950 C0.



  • @Veti said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

    @RAM said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

    The ones I think the thermistors are these 100K ohm NTC 3950FB

    That would be B3950 C0.

    Thanks for the info, I have been tinkering with the firmware and also looking through @Phaedrux config to try and figure bits out as well as using some of his bits from his macro files 😊 especially liked the start up tune at the end of the config.g file (I know little things please little minds).

    I have managed to get the printer fully connected with all the bits I am going to be using such as the extruder, hotend & z-probe which I didn't before as I was still printing out the last parts that I needed to get them mounted.

    I got the motors, endstops and probe working and even tuned the hotend and heated bed, So I am heading in the right direction at least now thanks to you guys.

    Even though I followed the tuning guide to the letter with all the steps and it looked like everything was in the green, when I set the temp it shots past the target before it even tries to let itself settle. E.G if I set the hotend temp to 100c it will hit 110c before it starts to come back down to the set target temp, As where the heated bed seems to be fine. E.G set it to 60c it hits 60.5 and stablizes.

    Is that normal for the hotend to do what it is doing or did I do something wrong when I tuned the hotend heater?
    This is what I get when sending the M307 H1 & H0 commands which I did save using M500 after each tune had completed

    M307 H1
    Heater 1 model: gain 468.5, time constant 118.3, dead time 9.5, max PWM 1.00, calibration voltage 24.0, mode PID, inverted no, frequency default
    Computed PID parameters for setpoint change: P4.7, I0.142, D31.6
    Computed PID parameters for load change: P4.7,
    
    M307 H0
    Heater 0 model: gain 146.6, time constant 334.8, dead time 0.7, max PWM 1.00, calibration voltage 23.5, mode PID, inverted no, frequency default
    Computed PID parameters for setpoint change: P582.4, I38.041, D285.4
    Computed PID parameters for load change: P
    
    

    If I also run any macro to pre-heat bed and hotend temps I get this warning.

    M98 P"0:/macros/PRE-HEAT/Pre- Heat PLA"
    Warning: Heater 1 appears to be over-powered. If left on at full power, its temperature is predicted to reach 493C.
    

    Also is there a way to force the X - axis to home before the Y and make the Y - axis wait for the X to be homed before the Y - axis can home as I am using optical sensors and they are both in the same corner, if I press the home all button it causes them to collide and I would like to avoid this if possible.

    I have added my whole Config in zip format if it will help.


  • Moderator

    @RAM said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

    Warning: Heater 1 appears to be over-powered. If left on at full power, its temperature is predicted to reach 493C.

    What do you have in the pre-heat pla macro?

    The warning is to warn you that your heater could reach that temp if it entered a fault state where full power was applied without control. It's a warning to prompt you to take precautions. Always keep an eye on your printer. Have fire suppression nearby. Get a smoke detector. Consider a lower wattage heater cartridge.

    @RAM said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

    Also is there a way to force the X - axis to home before the Y and make the Y - axis wait for the X to be homed before the Y - axis can home

    Yes, you can define how the homing process proceeds in the homeall.g file.



  • @Phaedrux the PLA settings macro I got from your config and changed the values so that they matched my heaters

    ; Raise temp of heated bed to 60 and nozzle to 190
    ;
    
    ; New values
    M307 H1 A468.5 C118.3 D9.5 S1.00 V24.0 B0 ; Hotend PID tune for 210c
    M307 H0 A146.6 C334.8 D0.7 S1.00 V23.5 B0 ; Bed PID tune for 90c
    
    T0
    G10 P0 S190			; Set extruder temp (tool 0) to 190
    M140 S60			; Set bed temp to 60
    M116				; Wait for temps to be reached...
    M117 PLA Preheat complete	; and send a notice to the screen that temps have been reached
    ;Play a tone
    M300 S1250 P200
    G4 P201
    M300 S1500 P200
    G4 P201
    M300 S1100 P200
    G4 P201
    M300 S950 P300
    G4 P400
    M300 S1175 P300
    G4 S1
    

    All of the Pre-heat macros are the same just different bed and hotend temps set and after the M117 it says either PLA, ABS or PETG

    I have a smoke detector and the printer is about 4 feet behind me but you are right I should buy a fire extingusher just incase the worst ever did happen.

    As for the homeall.g file what would I need to do with it as I have not a clue in which way to format it.

    homeall.g

    How did you manage to do the sound file whilst you are about lol


  • Moderator

    @RAM said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

    ; New values
    M307 H1 A468.5 C118.3 D9.5 S1.00 V24.0 B0 ; Hotend PID tune for 210c
    M307 H0 A146.6 C334.8 D0.7 S1.00 V23.5 B0 ; Bed PID tune for 90c

    So it's giving the warning because you are setting the values for the heaters. So it's just telling you that based on those values the heater model indicates that it has the potential to reach that temp if left at full uncontrolled power.

    ; homeall.g
    ; called to home all axes
    ;
    ; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v2.1.8 on Sun Jan 26 2020 18:02:23 GMT+0000 (Greenwich Mean Time)
    G91                     ; relative positioning
    G1 H2 Z5 F6000          ; lift Z relative to current position
    G1 H1 X-315 F1800   ; move quickly to X or Y endstop and stop there (first pass)
    G1 X5 F6000          ; go back a few mm
    G1 H1 X-315 F360        ; move slowly to X axis endstop once more (second pass)
    G1 H1 Y-325             ; home Y axis
    G1 Y15 F6000          ; go back a few mm
    G1 H1 Y-315 F360        ; move slowly to X axis endstop once more (second pass)
    G90                     ; absolute positioning
    G1 X-18 Y15 F6000       ; go to first bed probe point and home Z
    G30                     ; home Z by probing the bed
    

    Notice how I've split the X and Y movement so that it will home X first, then home Y after.

    You may want to change the location before the G30 so that it's at the center of the bed for homing Z.

    @RAM said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

    How did you manage to do the sound file whilst you are about lol

    Way too much time playing tones in the console and composing little tunes. πŸ˜‚



  • @Phaedrux said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

    So it's giving the warning because you are setting the values for the heaters. So it's just telling you that based on those values the heater model indicates that it has the potential to reach that temp if left at full uncontrolled power.

    I thought that was the settings after the tuning was done which was the correct settings to be using so that it wouldn't overshot the temp that was set or am I totally lost again ?

    As for the homeall.g file settings I didn't think of doing all of the X-Axis moves 1st then the Y.
    If I wanted to have the nozzle in the center of the bed before homing the Z I take it that I change the current setting to the co-ordinates that are showing on the DWC for the X & Y axis so instead of it being

    ;orignal values
    ;G1 X-18 Y15 F6000       ; go to first bed probe point and home Z
    
    ;new values
    G1 X 146 Y 130 F6000       ; go to first bed probe point and home Z (bed center)
    

    Is that correct in the way that I am reading and understanding the gcode ?

    How much $$ to do the star wars for the dark side theme πŸ˜†


  • Moderator

    @RAM said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

    @Phaedrux said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

    So it's giving the warning because you are setting the values for the heaters. So it's just telling you that based on those values the heater model indicates that it has the potential to reach that temp if left at full uncontrolled power.

    I thought that was the settings after the tuning was done which was the correct settings to be using so that it wouldn't overshot the temp that was set or am I totally lost again ?

    Yes those settings are fine. The warning just pops up any time that command is executed just to let you know.

    As for the homeall.g file settings I didn't think of doing all of the X-Axis moves 1st then the Y.
    If I wanted to have the nozzle in the center of the bed before homing the Z I take it that I change the current setting to the co-ordinates that are showing on the DWC for the X & Y axis so instead of it being

    ;orignal values
    ;G1 X-18 Y15 F6000       ; go to first bed probe point and home Z
    
    ;new values
    G1 X 146 Y 130 F6000       ; go to first bed probe point and home Z (bed center)
    

    Is that correct in the way that I am reading and understanding the gcode ?

    Yes that looks correct.

    How much $$ to do the star wars for the dark side theme πŸ˜†

    You mean Vader's theme?



  • @Phaedrux Yep the Vadar theme, just think it would be fun to have as a print complete theme. Haven't a clue on how I would implement it unless I put it in the code area of simplify3d.

    As for that heater warning when I run the macros does it really need to be in there ?

    And is there a way that I can sort out the heating issue on the hotend from over shooting the target so much as it worries me if I have to print PETG and it needs to be set to 240c. Could it be due to a cheap heater cartridge?


  • Moderator

    @RAM said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

    As for that heater warning when I run the macros does it really need to be in there ?

    Do you mean, do the commands really need to be in there? Not really. It depends how different the tuning results are for different temperatures. You'd still get the warning at boot time when the default commands are executed.

    And is there a way that I can sort out the heating issue on the hotend from over shooting the target so much as it worries me if I have to print PETG and it needs to be set to 240c. Could it be due to a cheap heater cartridge?

    If you run the PID tune for the temperature you'll be using it shouldn't overshoot by much. Check that the cartridge and thermistor are tightly secured in the block.



  • @Phaedrux ok thanks I will try running the hotend tune again at 240 to see if it behaves better.



  • Ok I run the tuning again @ 240c and this is what it comes back with.

    Warning: Heater 1 appears to be over-powered. If left on at full power, its temperature is predicted to reach 558C.
    Auto tune heater 1 completed in 218 sec
    Use M307 H1 to see the result, or M500 to save the result in config-override.g
    28/01/2020, 18:35:41 	Auto tune phase 3, peak temperature was 258.3
    28/01/2020, 18:35:31 	Auto tune phase 2, heater off
    28/01/2020, 18:34:10 	Auto tune phase 1, heater on
    28/01/2020, 18:34:04 	M303 H1 S240
    Auto tuning heater 1 using target temperature 240.0Β°C and PWM 1.00 - do not leave printer unattended
    

    is there a way that if the heater goes beyond a certain temp that it will shutdown automatically, or is that what the temp limit setting does when you go through the RRF config tool ?

    apparently the heater cartridge that I have is capable of 350c but I don't want it going that high obviously as I only have the V6 clone but I am hoping to upgrade to the new E3D Hemera but I can't find a mount that works with my build of the hypercube as I am using rails for the X & Y axis. (Should have stuck to the original plans πŸ˜† )


  • Moderator

    @RAM Yes there is a temperature limit set

    M143 H1 S280 ; set temperature limit for heater 1 to 280C

    But that only applies when the duet is in control. The warning is about what would happen if the duet failed in such a way that the heater was fully powered. The warning is just informational to let you know what you're dealing with.

    Are you using M500 after the tuning to save the results?

    Now that you've tuned for 240 what does the temp graph look like when you set it to 240?

    Did you start the tuning process from room temperature?

    It's also a good idea to have the print cooling fan running at the same speed you'd normally be using during a print. Which for PETG may be next to nothing, but for PLA might be quite a lot. That's another reason why it may be beneficial having different tunes loaded for different temps, especially if you don't have a nozzle sock.



  • @Phaedrux Yep I am using M500 after the tuning is done to save it but I think I might not have checked the Read config-override.g file at end of startup process when I was doing the config.

    It doesn't seem to shoot past 240c to much now I think it was about 8c more as where before it was going almost 18c above so that is an improvement at least.

    hotend.png

    Always done the tuning at room temp and with the part cooling fan set to 100% and even when I have been doing the pre-heat just as a test the part fan has been on 100%

    I do have a silicon sock fitted too, how can I store different tunes for different temps or would I just run the tune for each filament temp that I would need and just store it in the pre-heat macro for that type of filament ?

    If you think it might be better to just buy genuine heater cartridge and thermister I will do that as I don't want to be pulling the printer apart every 5 mins as I have a HicTop that is like that and I cannot be dealing with that again πŸ˜†


  • Moderator

    8c overshoot isn't too bad. It does seem to level off nicely after that. A genuine cartridge and thermistor may help. I'm always a fan of the quality option.

    how can I store different tunes for different temps or would I just run the tune for each filament temp that I would need and just store it in the pre-heat macro for that type of filament ?

    Exactly. If you use the preheat macro consistently, you could have the tuned settings in there. If you use PrusaSlicer you can even use the filaments gcode section to load the settings for each filament automatically. I think it's too bad that more slicers don't allow for that.

    There is also the DWC filaments functionality that would let you automate the filament loading and unloading behaviour and you could have different tuned values loaded there.

    But yes, using the preheat macro to load the values would be the most straight forward.


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