UNSOLVED Stuttering print, only on CW circles



  • Not sure how much value this video will provide, but here it is.
    https://youtu.be/QqNdBj9SzWs the video playback is kind of glitchy, so the hesitations are hard to pick out from printer stutters. The audio helps identify stutters.

    Printer is a Raise3D N2+ cartesian with a Duet2 Wifi board. Firmware is 2.05.1
    At this point in the print the parts are concentric cylinders with no features on the inside or outside walls. Printing these with no infill, just perimeter shells and single extrusion fill.
    The mesh started off pretty tight as this is a product I sell and I don't like visible faceting - I had about 1.5mm pitch on the mesh for this video.

    What I find odd is that the the printer doesn't stutter when printing the outer perimeters, only the inner ones. One part is split to clamp (not in the video) and the printer stutters only on the ID perimeters, not the OD, even though they are the same line. It will always stutter at the same spot, so it will leave a vertical line in the cylinder wall. It's not major, but I'm getting super clean prints otherwise, so this is frustrating.

    I loosened up the mesh to 4mm pitch and that helped reduce the stuttering but didn't eliminate it. It is still only when doing a CW circle, not CCW. That just seems real strange to me.

    Print speed is 80mms - I slow it down to 50% for single extrusion fill. Slicer is S3D. I read that S3D can be problematic for stuttering while printing. I have tried Cura, Prusa, and Ideamaker on these parts, but those slicers don't handle the single extrusion fill nearly as well as S3D and end up breaking into little pieces creating all kinds of build issues compared to S3D.

    Any thoughts on why it would only stutter when drawing a circle CW and not CCW?

    Here's my config.g
    ; Configuration file for Duet WiFi (firmware version 2.03)
    ; executed by the firmware on start-up
    ;
    ; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v2.1.8 on Mon May 11 2020 07:37:21 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)

    ; General preferences
    M501 ; process config-override.g
    G90 ; send absolute coordinates...
    M83 ; ...but relative extruder moves
    M550 P"N2+" ; set printer name

    ; Network
    M552 S1 ; enable network
    M586 P0 S1 ; enable HTTP
    M586 P1 S0 ; disable FTP
    M586 P2 S0 ; disable Telnet

    ; Drives
    M569 P0 S0 ; physical drive 0 goes backwards
    M569 P1 S0 ; physical drive 1 goes backwards
    M569 P2 S1 ; physical drive 2 goes forwards
    M569 P3 S1 ; physical drive 3 goes forwards
    M569 P4 S0 ; physical drive 4 goes backwards
    M584 X0 Y1 Z2 E3:4 ; set drive mapping
    M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16:16 I1 ; configure microstepping with interpolation
    M92 X80.00 Y80.00 Z800.00 E415.00:415.00 ; set steps per mm
    M566 X400.00 Y400.00 Z100.00 E400.00:400.00 ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
    M203 X18000 Y18000 Z1200 E1200:1200 ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
    M201 X2000 Y2000 Z250 E25000:25000 ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
    M906 X800 Y800 Z800 E800:800 I30 ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
    M84 S30 ; Set idle timeout

    ; Axis Limits
    M208 X0 Y-13 Z0 S1 ; set axis minima
    M208 X305 Y305 Z608 S0 ; set axis maxima

    ; Endstops
    M574 X1 Y1 S0 ; set active low and disabled endstops
    M574 Z1 S2 ; set endstops controlled by probe

    ; Z-Probe
    M307 H3 A-1 C-1 D-1 ; disable heater on PWM channel for BLTouch
    M558 P9 H2 F60 T6000 ; set Z probe type to bltouch and the dive height + speeds
    G31 P500 X12.5 Y51.05 Z3.5 ; set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height
    M557 X25:275 Y50:300 S50 ; define mesh grid

    ; Heaters
    M307 H0 B1 ; bang-bang mode for the bed heater
    M305 P0 X200 ; configure PT100 for heater 0
    M143 H0 S120 ; set temperature limit for heater 0 to 120C
    M305 P1 X152 ; configure thermocouple for heater 1
    M143 H1 S310 ; set temperature limit for heater 1 to 310C
    ; M305 P2 X153 ; configure thermocouple for heater 2
    ; M143 H2 S310 ; set temperature limit for heater 2 to 310C

    ; Fans
    M106 P0 S0 I0 F500 H-1 ; set fan 0 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned off
    M106 P1 S0 I0 F500 H1:2 T40 ; set fan 1 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned on
    M106 P2 S0 I0 L0.4 X1.0 B1 F30 H100 T40:65 ; set fan 2 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned on

    ; Tools
    M563 P0 D0 H1 F0 ; define tool 0
    G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0 ; set tool 0 axis offsets
    G10 P0 R0 S0 ; set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C
    ; M563 P1 D1 H2 F0 ; define tool 1
    ; G10 P1 X0 Y0 Z0 ; set tool 1 axis offsets
    ; G10 P1 R0 S0 ; set initial tool 1 active and standby temperatures to 0C

    ; Custom settings
    M591 D0 P1 C4 S1 ; filament runout sensor EXT 0, Low=Filament Present, endstop 1
    G29 S1 ; load bed mesh

    ; Miscellaneous
    M911 S10 R11 P"M913 X0 Y0 G91 M83 G1 Z3 E-5 F1000" ; set voltage thresholds and actions to run on power loss
    M501



  • @zemlin said in Stuttering print, only on CW circles:

    I have tried Cura, Prusa, and Ideamaker on these parts, but those slicers don't handle the single extrusion

    did it stutter with them as well?

    can you try again with M566 P1 ?


  • administrators

    I suspect that it is speed-dependent. For a given segment size, there is a maximum speed that can be maintained when there is a long sequence of vert short moves. Firmware 3.2beta2 and later can maintain higher speeds than earlier versions under some conditions.



  • @Veti said in Stuttering print, only on CW circles:

    @zemlin said in Stuttering print, only on CW circles:

    I have tried Cura, Prusa, and Ideamaker on these parts, but those slicers don't handle the single extrusion

    did it stutter with them as well?

    can you try again with M566 P1 ?

    I never tried printing the files from those other slicers. The single extrusion fill was a mess in the previews.

    I will try M566 P1. Thank you.



  • @zemlin

    as dc42 said. if the fragments are to small then this will cause a problem.
    that is why using a different slicer is a quick way to test.



  • @dc42 said in Stuttering print, only on CW circles:

    I suspect that it is speed-dependent. For a given segment size, there is a maximum speed that can be maintained when there is a long sequence of vert short moves. Firmware 3.2beta2 and later can maintain higher speeds than earlier versions under some conditions.

    Thank you. I have two basically identical printers that I've been upgrading to Duet. I have just a little work left to do on the second machine. Once I get the second wrapped up I'll start moving to the V3 firmware on one of them.



  • I tried adding P1 to the M566 line in my config.g.
    Did not resolve the issue.

    That was an easy one to test - more in-depth testing will need to wait. Might be motivation to move to the V3 firmware sooner than later before I bang my head against the wall too much on this.

    Thanks for the input.



  • @Veti said in Stuttering print, only on CW circles:

    if the fragments are to small then this will cause a problem.

    Is this because the STL model is too fine?

    IIRC, there are way to simplify the STL model, when exporting the STL, with STL editors or with slicer's resolution settings.



  • @zapta said in Stuttering print, only on CW circles:

    @Veti said in Stuttering print, only on CW circles:

    if the fragments are to small then this will cause a problem.

    Is this because the STL model is too fine?

    IIRC, there are way to simplify the STL model, when exporting the STL, with STL editors or with slicer's resolution settings.

    It does improve with a coarser STL export, but the fact that it only stutters when printing inner CW circles and not the outer CCW paths when the STL segments are identical lengths inside and outside the cylinder walls is what I find particularly baffling.



  • @zemlin said in Stuttering print, only on CW circles:

    it only stutters when printing inner CW circles

    Are both the inner and the outer circles of the same feature type from slicer's perspective? (outer perimeter, inner perimeter, infill, top, bottom, etc).

    The slicer may set different parameters for different features. Also, you can look with an STL viewers at the triangles at both sides and see if you see any difference, e.g. with triangle density.

    BTW, from the video, it looks as a high quality motion system, speed of movement, sound and such.



  • @zapta - yes - feature type is the same. Both inner perimeters and outer perimeters stutter. Only when printing the inside of the cylinder, not the outside.


  • Moderator

    Can you send M122 after a print and post the results?



  • @Phaedrux

    8:33:49 PMM122
    === Diagnostics ===
    RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet version 2.05.1 running on Duet WiFi 1.02 or later
    Board ID: 08DJM-9178L-L4MSN-6JKD0-3SJ6S-K93AQ
    Used output buffers: 1 of 24 (11 max)
    === RTOS ===
    Static ram: 25712
    Dynamic ram: 93240 of which 0 recycled
    Exception stack ram used: 448
    Never used ram: 11672
    Tasks: NETWORK(ready,628) HEAT(blocked,1176) MAIN(running,3760) IDLE(ready,160)
    Owned mutexes:
    === Platform ===
    Last reset 02:01:13 ago, cause: software
    Last software reset at 2020-12-07 18:32, reason: User, spinning module GCodes, available RAM 11728 bytes (slot 1)
    Software reset code 0x0003 HFSR 0x00000000 CFSR 0x00000000 ICSR 0x0441f000 BFAR 0xe000ed38 SP 0xffffffff Task 0x4e49414d
    Error status: 0
    Free file entries: 10
    SD card 0 detected, interface speed: 20.0MBytes/sec
    SD card longest block write time: 0.0ms, max retries 0
    MCU temperature: min 51.8, current 52.9, max 53.9
    Supply voltage: min 23.1, current 24.1, max 24.4, under voltage events: 0, over voltage events: 0, power good: yes
    Driver 0: standstill, SG min/max 0/1023
    Driver 1: standstill, SG min/max 0/1023
    Driver 2: standstill, SG min/max 0/542
    Driver 3: standstill, SG min/max 0/1023
    Driver 4: standstill, SG min/max not available
    Date/time: 2020-12-07 20:33:47
    Cache data hit count 4294967295
    Slowest loop: 156.72ms; fastest: 0.07ms
    I2C nak errors 0, send timeouts 0, receive timeouts 0, finishTimeouts 0, resets 0
    === Move ===
    Hiccups: 0, FreeDm: 160, MinFreeDm: 79, MaxWait: 43293ms
    Bed compensation in use: mesh, comp offset -0.016
    === DDARing ===
    Scheduled moves: 0, completed moves: 0, StepErrors: 0, LaErrors: 0, Underruns: 172, 0
    === Heat ===
    Bed heaters = 0 -1 -1 -1, chamberHeaters = -1 -1
    Heater 0 is on, I-accum = 0.0
    Heater 1 is on, I-accum = 0.4
    === GCodes ===
    Segments left: 0
    Stack records: 2 allocated, 0 in use
    Movement lock held by null
    http is idle in state(s) 0
    telnet is idle in state(s) 0
    file is idle in state(s) 0
    serial is idle in state(s) 0
    aux is idle in state(s) 0
    daemon is idle in state(s) 0
    queue is idle in state(s) 0
    autopause is idle in state(s) 0
    Code queue is empty.
    === Network ===
    Slowest loop: 15.32ms; fastest: 0.00ms
    Responder states: HTTP(0) HTTP(0) HTTP(0) HTTP(0) FTP(0) Telnet(0) Telnet(0)
    HTTP sessions: 1 of 8

    • WiFi -
      Network state is running
      WiFi module is connected to access point
      Failed messages: pending 0, notready 0, noresp 0
      WiFi firmware version 1.23
      WiFi MAC address 84:0d:8e:b3:59:bd
      WiFi Vcc 3.41, reset reason Turned on by main processor
      WiFi flash size 4194304, free heap 24816
      WiFi IP address 192.168.1.130
      WiFi signal strength -63dBm, reconnections 0, sleep mode modem
      Socket states: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
      === Filament sensors ===
      Extruder 0 sensor: ok

  • Moderator

    Can you share the stl and the sliced gcode file?



  • This post is deleted!


  • @Phaedrux - gcode is 6MB and the forum doesn't allow zip files. Suggestions? Do I need to post it on drop box or something? What's up with no zip files?

    GCODE: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_aMcfSjBaq4Vxs93n-LVL8NGJz0dkshM/view?usp=sharing

    There are 2 STL files in that print.

    nafs600f28edvr2-sleeve-hk35.stl nafs600f28edvr2-ring-hk35-b.stl

    Screenshot 2020-12-07 213415.jpg


  • Moderator

    Try another slicer. Simplify is generating a 6MB gcode file and PrusaSlicer with similar settings is 3MB.

    1607395308342-nafs600f28edvr2-ring-hk35-b.gcode



  • @Phaedrux I have tried slicing my models with Cura, Prusa, and Ideamaker. The other components I run in these builds have extensive single-extrusion fill requirements. Only S3D produces the results I want on the fill - the other slicers won't do a continuous single extrusion fill in many of the layers.

    I am printing lens hoods for large camera lenses, so numerous variants of the same basic design. I have printed dozens of sets without issue. Just once in a while I have an issue with the stuttering.

    From what I had read on other threads, I though it would be related to bed mesh compensation, but I disabled the bed mesh yesterday and that didn't change the stuttering.

    I was beginning to think it was machine related as I had only seen the stuttering on the N2+, not the N2, but I put the stuttering g-code on the N2 yesterday and it stuttered the same. That's good news from a troubleshooting standpoint because the machines are identical.

    I've had to very nearly identical prints run - one that stuttered and one that didn't - same STL, same slicer, slightly different settings in the slice (like extruder multiplier, horizontal offset, part scaling - all very small tweaks between setups or material lots).

    I might have to run some test prints stair-stepping some settings to see if I can force it to turn on and off on the same print job.


  • Moderator

    @zemlin said in Stuttering print, only on CW circles:

    the other slicers won't do a continuous single extrusion fill in many of the layers.

    I think prusa slicer should if thin wall detection and gap fill is enabled, though you might have to play with the extrusion width a bit.

    Otherwise it would be interesting to see how 3.2 beta 4.1 handles it as suggesting by DC42 earlier.

    There were no hiccups, you're not using high microstepping, and you've ruled out mesh compensation interacting with low z jerk.



  • Just this week I got both printers to a "finished" state with my upgrades and conversions. Needed to get to that point before potentially taking one down with a muffed update. Might be able to try that this weekend. Thanks for your insight.


  • Moderator

    For the update to RRF3, start with 3.0 and then 3.1.1. You can generate a RRF3 config set using the online tool and then compare to your existing config to add in anything custom. Once it's running you can update to the beta (or RC if it's out by then.)



  • With some help from the forum here I got one of my machines running 3.2 Beta4?

    No change in the stuttering. Tried 566 P1, that doesn't have an impact either.

    Update - found the 3.2.beta4.1, but since it was mentioned that anything after 3.2 would have the improved processing, not going to duplicate the tests unless you think it's worthwhile.


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