Duet3D Logo Duet3D
    • Tags
    • Documentation
    • Order
    • Register
    • Login

    Maximum F speed for Duet 3 6HC

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Unsolved
    Duet Hardware and wiring
    7
    15
    660
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • Paytonundefined
      Payton
      last edited by

      Hello I am running a duet 3 and trying to go to F16000 for one of my extruders. I have a two in one out extruder so each motor is rated for F8000 with no micro stepping.

      when I run the motors they ran oddly so I looked at the duet's signals form the pins to the motors and noted at about F13710 it would begin to have warped duty cycles

      here is a photo of a G1 E1000 F8000
      7a986002-59e0-4133-ac26-2f33e585e354-F8000 single phase.PNG

      and here is a photo of G1 E1000 F16000
      a7a851bd-264a-498a-b5a9-e319302fd2cd-image.png

      I am not sure why it is doing this, is this a limitation of the drivers? am I approaching the limit of the TMC5160? is there a demon eating my pulses?

      any help will be appreciated

      gloomyandyundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • gloomyandyundefined
        gloomyandy @Payton
        last edited by

        @payton You need to post your config.g file (without it there is no way to know what the Fxxxxx numbers translate to in terms of steps/s). It would also probably help if you post the specifications of the stepper motors you are using and the voltage you are running them at.

        Paytonundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • Paytonundefined
          Payton @gloomyandy
          last edited by

          @gloomyandy

          config (1).g

          the motor is a bit weird but it is not important for this problem. it will be difficult to get the Motor specs

          infiniteloopundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • Phaedruxundefined
            Phaedrux Moderator
            last edited by Phaedrux

            M584 X0.1 Y0.2:0.3 Z0.4 E0.0:0.5                  ; set drive mapping
            M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E1:1 I0                          ; configure microstepping with interpolation
            M92 X80.00 Y80.00 Z400.00 E207:207                ; set steps per mm
            M566 X900.00 Y900.00 Z60.00 E30000.00:30000.00    ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min) (jerk settings)
            M203 X6000.00 Y6000.00 Z600.00 E50800.20:50800.20 ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
            M201 X500.00 Y500.00 Z120.00 E250.00:250.00        ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
            M906 X800 Y800 Z800 E800:800 I30                  ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
            
            ; Tools
            M563 P2 S"Viscotec" D0:1                          ; define tool 2 ( Drive 0.0: Drive 0.5)
            G10 P2 X-72 Y-98.1 Z-15.15                                 ; set tool 2 axis offsets
            G10 P2 R0 S0                                      ; set initial tool 2 active and standby temperatures to 0C
            M567 P2 E0.5:0.5
            

            This is a bit of a strange setup. What more can you tell us about the motor and extruder?

            Firmware version?

            Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

            deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • infiniteloopundefined
              infiniteloop @Payton
              last edited by

              @payton said in Maximum F speed for Duet 3 6HC:

              it will be difficult to get the Motor specs

              Ask them: mail@viscotec.de

              Paytonundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • deckingmanundefined
                deckingman @Phaedrux
                last edited by deckingman

                @phaedrux said in Maximum F speed for Duet 3 6HC:

                This is a bit of a strange setup. What more can you tell us about the motor and extruder?

                I too am curious to know how or why one would want to run an extruder at a filament feedrate of approximately 300 mm/sec. Which equates to a melt rate of around 700mm^3/sec.

                Ian
                https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • Paytonundefined
                  Payton @infiniteloop
                  last edited by

                  @infiniteloop we have had a problem with the motors before, but they will not give or don't have a datasheet for the motors as far as I am aware. however the problem is for sure with the signals coming from the duet board having gaps in the duty cycle

                  infiniteloopundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • Paytonundefined
                    Payton
                    last edited by

                    @phaedrux
                    m115
                    FIRMWARE_NAME: RepRapFirmware for Duet 3 MB6HC FIRMWARE_VERSION: 3.4.0 ELECTRONICS: Duet 3 MB6HC v1.01 or later FIRMWARE_DATE: 2022-03-15 18:57:26
                    the problem is not with the motor but with the signals from the duet.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Paytonundefined
                      Payton @infiniteloop
                      last edited by

                      @infiniteloop
                      this is the best I have received and it is configured completely differently. this uses an 8 pin connector or a can bus. but the Viscotec uses a 4 pin setup, two to live and neutral 24V, and 2 to the motor pins of the duet. it uses the duet's motor pin signal to command an internal driver witch runs the servo.

                      EN_2250_BX4_CXD_DFF (not our configuration).pdf

                      infiniteloopundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • infiniteloopundefined
                        infiniteloop @Payton
                        last edited by

                        @payton

                        however the problem is for sure with the signals coming from the duet board having gaps in the duty cycle

                        It is always problematic to point with the finger on someone when the other party is completely unknown. Like any other device, Duets and the used ICs have technical limitations, maybe resulting in the „gaps“ you describe at extreme frequencies. Either you lower extrusion speed, or you set up some kind of frequency doubler - which might be tricky as long as the kind of signals required by the extruder is unknown.

                        Paytonundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • infiniteloopundefined
                          infiniteloop @Payton
                          last edited by

                          @payton said in Maximum F speed for Duet 3 6HC:

                          this uses an 8 pin connector or a can bus. but the Viscotec uses a 4 pin setup

                          Then, it's useless. Did you ask Viscotec for technical data? If they want to make business, they should really be interested to tell you how to control their devices.

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • Phaedruxundefined
                            Phaedrux Moderator
                            last edited by

                            Can you provide a M122 report after you've commanded the rapid extruder movement?

                            Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • Paytonundefined
                              Payton @infiniteloop
                              last edited by

                              @infiniteloop if it is a hardware limit I am bumping up against is what I am trying to ascertain. if it is a hardware issue I will need a different board, if it is some config issue, then I do not

                              dc42undefined T3P3Tonyundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • dc42undefined
                                dc42 administrators @Payton
                                last edited by dc42

                                @payton it's a bit old now, but from https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AWA1wLbOaYzxzdQa5LRZvn9rgEk2BuluHy6-_OnD6FY/edit#gid=0 you can see that we have achieved 650kHz step rate on the 6HC with a single motor running, and 480kHz with 3 motoes running,

                                Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • T3P3Tonyundefined
                                  T3P3Tony administrators @Payton
                                  last edited by

                                  @payton it looks like you are operating the drivers with "fast" step pulse timing, which is the default for internal Trinamic drivers. This means the step pulses are only guaranteed to be long enough for the built in drivers to register a step.

                                  https://docs.duet3d.com/User_manual/Reference/Gcodes#m569-set-motor-driver-direction-enable-polarity-mode-and-step-pulse-timing

                                  External drivers generally need a bit of a longer step pulse. Now your motors are an odd design which use the stepper driver output to driver another driver. when a motor is connected the slight differences in step pulse length when stepping quickly makes no difference, but if you want the steps to be evenly spaced then try using the T parameter to extend the step pulse width (try T1).

                                  You will observe however that if you go two fast the firmware will group step pulses together in batches which once again is a variable duty cycle however maybe your drivers wont mind that behaviour.

                                  As far as step rate itself is concerned, with T1 you should be able to reach 300Khz, looking at your requirement (207 steps/mm at F16000 = 266.66 mm/s) of 55.3Khz step rate, this is very achievable.

                                  www.duet3d.com

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • First post
                                    Last post
                                  Unless otherwise noted, all forum content is licensed under CC-BY-SA