Mounting a smart effector in larger effector - watercooled



  • I'm in the early design phase of a custom delta. Currently I am using FSR's under the bed but considering going smart effector for the new machine. Purely to have the strain based sensor. I want to have my delta arms spaced wider than what the smart effector offers, as well as integrate a direct drive extruder on the effector.
    Is it a bad idea to use the magball holes in the pcb to mount to a larger effector of my own making?



  • I've finally come to start designing what I planned. Any thoughts on mounting a Smart Effector in this fashion? It might be interesting to know that the vertical offsets on which the Smart Effector is mounted are there because I plan on using a Super Volcano in the future and this is a nice way to recover some of the lost Z-height.
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  • While I can't speak to the smart effector, I do have experiance designing and testing ball cup effectors with the bottom of the effector even with the bottom of the heat sink and the Zesty Nimble on top. Unless that adapter is going to be metal my opinion is it is going to flex too much for good print quality. YMMV



  • @alexander-mundy said in Mounting a smart effector in larger effector:

    While I can't speak to the smart effector, I do have experiance designing and testing ball cup effectors with the bottom of the effector even with the bottom of the heat sink and the Zesty Nimble on top. Unless that adapter is going to be metal my opinion is it is going to flex too much for good print quality. YMMV

    Do you by any chance have some pictures of your designs that you can share? I'd love to see what you have come up with.


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    @nxt-1 said in Mounting a smart effector in larger effector:

    I've finally come to start designing what I planned. Any thoughts on mounting a Smart Effector in this fashion? It might be interesting to know that the vertical offsets on which the Smart Effector is mounted are there because I plan on using a Super Volcano in the future and this is a nice way to recover some of the lost Z-height.

    That looks entirely workable to me. Note, the Smart Effector relies on nozzle force deforming the flat PCB into the surface of a sphere, with the centre about 0.1mm higher than the edges when it triggers. So your mounting system should not constrain the Smart Effector to remain flat.



  • Here is my latest for my 400mm bed delta. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3739808 It is E3D and Nimble specific, but you can see my bracing etc which I went through 4 or 5 iterations before being satisfied. Your design seems workable, however IMO I would fill in the area between the ball mounts and fillet the corners at the base of the uprights. My first attempts also had the ball mounts with a small area like that and minimal bracing between them and they would flex during printing causing slight layer alignment and corner issues. Also, I don't know what material you are going to print it in but if PETG use a good CF PETG, it will flex considerably less than just plain PETG. Again, YMMV so there is only one way to find out.



  • @dc42 said in Mounting a smart effector in larger effector:

    That looks entirely workable to me. Note, the Smart Effector relies on nozzle force deforming the flat PCB into the surface of a sphere, with the centre about 0.1mm higher than the edges when it triggers. So your mounting system should not constrain the Smart Effector to remain flat.

    I assume by not constraining you mean the mount touching the PCB in the strain traces area? I try to touch the PCB and by extent the heatsink as little as possible. There will always be some constraining at the six holes where normally the ball joints would be mounted.



  • I'm continuing my design slow but steadily. My fancy for water cooling has finally gotten the better of me and I decided to explore modding a E3D heat sink to be water cooled with off the shelf parts. Below is the first iteration with water cooling in mind. A second version is coming up real soon as the print completes.

    0_1566595429422_2019-08-23 23.15.58.jpg



  • Here is the updated version, with some guides for the small tubing added. The copper heatblocks are from Alphacool and I have no clue how well they work πŸ™‚ . For now they are just attached with a ziptie. I do have some thermally conductive glue I want to use in the final version.

    0_1566631232020_2019-08-23 23.16.12.jpg
    0_1566631236249_2019-08-23 23.16.24.jpg



  • I decided to add a printed fitting, to which an extra tube can be mounted. That tube will carry the air from an external pump to the part fan duct. The duct still has to be designed though.

    0_1566664500187_2019-08-24 18.22.02.jpg


  • administrators

    Looking good!



  • @Nxt-1

    This is a cool idea, so I'm really hoping to be wrong ... But I have some questions:

    • How much extra weight does this add?
    • If I see it correctly you grinded down the radiator to be square, and added the blocks to the sides you got this way. But, for me it seems that this adds a distance between the heatbreak and the heater block which are only about 50% connected to the system (the original radiator is not solid)

    I have seen an idea somewhere earlyer, when someone printed a large tube around the radiator, sealed the upper and lower most ring of the radiator to it, and circulated the water in this tube making the original radiator the inner part of the water block. This way seems better because:

    • All extra parts are printable
    • It seems to be lighter
    • The water is closer to the heat source and also has a larger contact surfice

    Again, the idea is great, and I really hope that I'm wrong and your approach works flawlessly!!



  • @denke said in Mounting a smart effector in larger effector - watercooled:

    @Nxt-1

    This is a cool idea, so I'm really hoping to be wrong ... But I have some questions:

    • How much extra weight does this add?
    • If I see it correctly you grinded down the radiator to be square, and added the blocks to the sides you got this way. But, for me it seems that this adds a distance between the heatbreak and the heater block which are only about 50% connected to the system (the original radiator is not solid)

    I have seen an idea somewhere earlyer, when someone printed a large tube around the radiator, sealed the upper and lower most ring of the radiator to it, and circulated the water in this tube making the original radiator the inner part of the water block. This way seems better because:

    • All extra parts are printable
    • It seems to be lighter
    • The water is closer to the heat source and also has a larger contact surfice

    Again, the idea is great, and I really hope that I'm wrong and your approach works flawlessly!!

    • I plan to weigh the complete hotend once it is all finished up.

    • The original radiator was indeed ground down to be squarish. And you are right this is not optimal in terms of contact surface.

    • I have seen a couple of designs like the one you mention. The main problem with a printed heat block/sleeve is leaks. I am fairly certain my current plan will not leak at all. With a printed sleeve, you always have the issue of making it water tight. I might experiment with it in the future though.

    I think all your points are quite valid. I am just experimenting around for now I guess.



  • @nxt-1
    Thanx for explaining your reasoning, please let me know how it goes!



  • Ever thought about putting all the hardware on top, just the tubes running down, so more clearance around the nozzle, using the 3 holes around the centerhole for mounting the hardware, keeping the balls at the designated spots?

    In theory, you can also use this then to add a direct drive instead of using a bowden



  • @denke I believe you remember https://well-engineered.net/index.php/en/86-community-water-cooling

    I do have the water cooling block at home, but it is waiting for a later time when I finished off my current ones.



  • @crynool said in Mounting a smart effector in larger effector - watercooled:

    Ever thought about putting all the hardware on top, just the tubes running down, so more clearance around the nozzle, using the 3 holes around the centerhole for mounting the hardware, keeping the balls at the designated spots?

    In theory, you can also use this then to add a direct drive instead of using a bowden

    I do not see how moving the two black water splitter block up will increase clearance around the nozzle, please elaborate. As far I know, the 3 holes around the center hole are not a good spot for mounting anything with any mass. These holes are just about in the strain gauge area of the board and will influence measurements if constrained. Furthermore, I am not using the usual mag ball's so I cannot keep the balls at the usual spots even if I wanted to.

    A direct drive can be added to this whether or not I move things around (it would be harder with more stuff moved upwards actually). I have printed with a direct drive Bondtech BMG mounted on a custom effector I designed for over a year I believe. While the direct-y-ness is a bliss, the added mass is not at all. The BMG+(pancake)stepper add quite a bit of weight to the moving effector, resulting a significant ringing at corners in the print.

    Recently I have moved the extruder to a separate 4th axis, Leaving me with a lighter effector and shortish bowden tube (170mm I believe).



  • @oliof said in Mounting a smart effector in larger effector - watercooled:

    @denke I believe you remember https://well-engineered.net/index.php/en/86-community-water-cooling

    I do have the water cooling block at home, but it is waiting for a later time when I finished off my current ones.

    I that block was available with a M12 threaded mount instead of a groove mount, I would throw my ideas in the bin right way most likely πŸ˜‰ I sadly do not have access to metal shaping machines to make my own either.



  • Sorry to put a dampener on your work but I don't think it will work, With the feed tube/blocks where they are I don't think you will have anywhere near enough clearance for the arms so your print radius is going to be severely limited and should you go beyond that limit you are likely to get an arm disconnection. I hope I am wrong but I would attempt to mount it and see before you go much farther. Also you might like to Check out the Zesty Kryo



  • @dougal1957 said in Mounting a smart effector in larger effector - watercooled:

    Sorry to put a dampener on your work but I don't think it will work, With the feed tube/blocks where they are I don't think you will have anywhere near enough clearance for the arms so your print radius is going to be severely limited and should you go beyond that limit you are likely to get an arm disconnection. I hope I am wrong but I would attempt to mount it and see before you go much farther. Also you might like to Check out the Zesty Kryo

    No worries about damping πŸ™‚ , I have been thinking the same about clearance. In the current design, I have placed the ball joint connections at close to the edge of the smart effector pcb as I physically possible. If clearance issues arise, I can move them outwards or increase the spacing between the rods.

    On terms of the Zesty Kryo, holy crap. That seems just about what I was looking for. I have to interest into getting the rest of the Nimble ecosystem but I will definitely look at the Kryo. One issue, did Zesty discontinue the Kryo. I cannot find a source for it.