Titan Clicking...should I buy a Bondtech extruder?
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I just wish bondtech had a more integrated option like the Titan Aero.
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The Titan has some difficult bearing alignments and sliding fits, and the idler is cantilevered off the stepper shaft. If anything is out of place it will start to skip.
As well, if you apply too much force to the bearings during assembly it will indent the raceways and grind itself to pieces. Its best to locktight that screw and stop tightening as soon as it makes contact with the lid.
The Titan is a very light and compact design when it works, but they got a little too clever.
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@tef9 What is making it click? Is the motor skipping or is there some mechanical issue?
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@mrehorstdmd It’s the filament being ground, which then does not move
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@tef9 That shouldn't happen. There's something wrong with your setup- the nozzle is partially blocked, or maybe the temperature is too low, or maybe motor current is too low. Does the hot-end have a cooling fan and is it running all the time? What size nozzle? At what layer thickness do you print? Bowden tube or direct?
What motor are you using? Grinding filament (carving divots in it) should not happen, ever. The pinch roller tension should cause the drive gear to bite deeply enough into the filament that the motor will skip steps before it chews up the filament. If your Titan is carving divots into the filament, increase the pinch roller pressure. If it keeps carving divots even at high pinch roller pressure, turn the motor current down to reduce the torque and stop the chewing, and then look at the hot-end for the reason why it needs so much torque to push the filament through it.
Titans are not perfect for several reasons but usually work well and reliably. The BMG fixes the mechanical problems of the Titan but comes with a couple of its own.
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I would bet that you have one or more failed bearings.
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Mine is/was a somewhat unusual usage case in that with a mixing hot end, it is necessary to retract all filaments concurrently, even those that aren't moving forward. So, when I printed this for example, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zXkNvqrDbA&t=101s by the time the last filament starts to move forward, it has undergone in excess of 7,000 retract and un-retract cycles. That is to say, the same section of filament has been retracted and un-retrcated more than 7,000 times and even with the lightest possible tension, the Titan would grind right through the filament. I then did an evaluation of both the Titan and the Bondtech BMG using an extreme torture test to simulate this retract/unretract scenario. https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/2018/05/11/bondtech-bmg-vs-e3d-titan-extreme-retraction-torture-test/.
Under these conditions, the Titan ground completely through the filament after about 7,000 cycles whereas the BMG continued beyond 23,000 cycles.
Now that is an extreme test and most users won't experience the sort of problem that I had. However, for my particular usage case, changing to BMGs solved all my problems.
But as an aside, although the Titan is fine extruder, compared to the Bondtceh BMG it is a PITA to fit and to adjust so that the gears mesh properly. Oh, and the two pictures of the insides of both extruders that I posted at the end of my blog post tell a bit more of the story ...
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BMG just works. I had problems with the titan too. BMG is a much better design with the gears and drive pushing the filament. Some people seem to get lucky with the titan, but after switching to the BMG I'd never use anything else.
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i was going to get BMG, but went with the new Dyze Pro GT setup and OMG.....its incredily good although $300 the hotend can print nearly anything and can run at 500C....i totally love it and performs much better than E3D by far
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All,
Thank you all for the replys, I have bought a Bondtech but also a temp gun to see what's happening at the hot end...I don't think its bad bearings as I bought the Titan in Oct 2018...Either way I have been given a lot to think about and try, so I will get back to you after I have had a chance to play
My set-up is a Tevo Little monster completely overhauled electronically...So I am interested in a Bowden set-up.
Best,
Andy
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@tef9 said in Titan Clicking...should I buy a Bondtech extruder?:
I don't think its bad bearings as I bought the Titan in Oct 2018
Trust me, the date you bought it has nothing to do with the bearings being crap. They may have fixed some of the issues with original bad bearings and lubricants, but the design itself is very hard on the bearings it uses. It's also incredibly easy to overtighten and damage them. If you disassemble the heatsink you can check the bearings for any leaked lubricant, which is a sure sign they are damaged. Even if there is no visible signs, taking the bearings out and rolling them in your fingers will quickly let you know if they are still rolling smooth or not.
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They all seem to rotate fine, no issues. Maybe its temperature or a blockage?
I will investigate, I am not a professional film director but here is some shaky cam footage of the clicking while printing.
Best,
Andy
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@tef9 Yes, I'd say that's grinding away at the filament because of some sort of restriction in the hot end which could be temperature or something else. What you hear is the sound of the filament skipping. TBH, although a Bondtech will likely help because it has two hobbed bolts to grip the filament, it isn't the root cause of the problem.
Edit. Gentry pinch the filament between a finger and thumb just where it enters the extruder - I'll bet you can feel it jumping. Try increasing the hot end temperature or printing a bit slower.
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I think you might be right, either way I have another extruder and another hot end, so my multiple colour set-up is getting closer
Just don't tell the wife
Best,
Andy
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@tef9 All the filament dust that's been packed into the drive gear is going to cause very uneven extrusion because it will prevent the drive gear from biting into the filament consistently. That dust is evidence that the extruder is having a hard time pushing filament through the hot-end/nozzle.
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@tef9 Yes looks like it could be a partial blockage in your hotend, have you calibrated the extruder?
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It also looks like the drive gear isn't aligned properly with the larger gear. The faces should be flush. You may also need to adjust the larger gear on the hobbed axle to get the filament path lined up with the center of the hob.
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@phaedrux said in Titan Clicking...should I buy a Bondtech extruder?:
It also looks like the drive gear isn't aligned properly with the larger gear. The faces should be flush. You may also need to adjust the larger gear on the hobbed axle to get the filament path lined up with the center of the hob.
Good catch. Looking again at the video from about 22 seconds, it looks like the big gear isn't running true. It seems to vary between being close to the front edge of the smaller gear to being close to the back edge. It might just be variations in camera angle but it looks like the large gear isn't square on it's shaft.
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Oh boy...so where to begin...
So the extruder after a little persuasion runs a charm, I still have a Bondtech on order but that will be for a second head
I had a fan at the front of the head running full belt...all the time, despite me thinking I had set it to be based on PWM. Either way I was happy to unplig it for now as I have two other fans running either side (which are controlled by PWM...they are currently off).
I took of the silicon sock, and there was plastic everywhere, I decided to do a quick check of my setting with the M303 H1 S250 1. It all went to plan, except there was smoke...very strange. I could not find the source. either way when I used the temp gun...it read at about 10-20 deg c less than the thermistor. After the fourth phase of the tuning i got this message:
**20:20:36
M307 H1
Heater 1 model: gain 456.8, time constant 353.5, dead time 3.3, max PWM 1.00, calibration voltage 24.2, mode PID, inverted no, frequency default
Computed PID parameters for setpoint change: P41.7, I1.217, D96.7
Computed PID parameters for load change: P41.20:13:55
Warning: Heater 1 appears to be over-powered. If left on at full power, its temperature is predicted to reach 481C.
Auto tune heater 1 completed in 588 sec
Use M307 H1 to see the result, or M500 to save the result in config-override.g**I then noticed as cleaning of the plastic i could move the head very slightly...I am now waiting for it to cool...either way a much more exciting experiment than I thought I would get
I will dismantle the head and reseat everything, hope I did not damage anything inside the Nozel X
Best,
Andy
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Did you do a hot tightening of the nozzle after installing it?
