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Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion

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Tuning and tweaking
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  • undefined
    Veti
    last edited by 9 Dec 2019, 21:09

    yes. i mainly got them because those were the only ones with swappable cable.

    a good alternative are the steppers suggested here
    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3382718

    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 10 Dec 2019, 08:17 Reply Quote 1
    • undefined
      Murloc992 @Veti
      last edited by 10 Dec 2019, 08:17

      @Veti

      Maybe you have pics of print results with E3D motors? I have some motors with same specs to buy locally, but E3D are.. cheaper?

      "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • undefined
        Veti
        last edited by 10 Dec 2019, 18:46

        those where posted here
        https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/9438/artefacts-on-walls

        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 11 Dec 2019, 05:09 Reply Quote 1
        • undefined
          Murloc992 @Veti
          last edited by Murloc992 12 Nov 2019, 05:10 11 Dec 2019, 05:09

          @Veti

          Thank you. Now I just need to wait till my steppers arrive and update this post. 🙂 Going to change X/Y and E.

          "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • undefined
            Murloc992
            last edited by Murloc992 17 Dec 2019, 22:55

            So I've upgraded my motors to E3D ones:

            X/Y: https://e3d-online.com/high-torque-motor
            E: https://e3d-online.com/compact-but-powerful-motor

            Now I have a WEIRD pattern that comes from the extruder motor:
            2019-12-18 00.51.44.jpg
            2019-12-18 00.51.46.jpg
            (I know, my first layer is too high, I just wanted to test ASAP)

            I can hear the extruder motor making such "patterned noise"..

            I have started at 1000mA current(both driver and motor cool), then tried to make it 1400mA(driver a bit hotter than lukewarm, motor cool/warm) with no change in behavior. What is this artifact?

            "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • undefined
              Veti
              last edited by 18 Dec 2019, 06:29

              @Murloc992 said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

              Now I have a WEIRD pattern that comes from the extruder motor:

              are you sure its from the extruder? how does it look if you switch back to the old motor on the extruder?

              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Dec 2019, 07:22 Reply Quote 0
              • undefined
                Murloc992 @Veti
                last edited by Murloc992 18 Dec 2019, 07:22

                @Veti

                I am sure, it's making pulsing noise even when spinning alone, without any plastic or idler engaged.. The old one doesn't pulse.. I have tried increasing microsctepping and disabling interpolation (nothing), reducing current(nothing), increasing current to maximum(heat increased only)..

                This is the best I got:
                2019-12-18 09.24.51.jpg
                2019-12-18 09.24.58.jpg

                The pattern is uniform on all sides.

                Last time I had it was when I had too thin wires for my motor on an old printer and wires were heating up. But these are E3D cables, I haven't even changed the pins, tried different cables too and they are not heating up at all even at maximum current..

                The one I had on my old printer was extreme.. and fixed after changing the extruder cabling.
                2019-02-26 22.15.54.jpg

                "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • undefined
                  Murloc992
                  last edited by 18 Dec 2019, 09:52

                  Maybe this could be related to low voltage? I use 12V. Also I got an advice to attempt to reduce microstepping of the extruder motor to 8 microsteps. I will lose the interpolation though.. Will this matter?

                  Need an expert here. 🙂

                  "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • undefined
                    droftarts administrators
                    last edited by droftarts 18 Dec 2019, 10:58

                    I'd say that somewhere in your extruder drive, a gear is running eccentrically, or there's some other mechanical factor that's causing the the filament to speed up and slow down as it passes through the extruder. Is the stepper motor geared to the hobbed drive, or directly connected? I'd look if the gear on the motor shaft is running eccentrically, due to the hole being off centre, particularly if it's a geared extruder drive, as this would give the short frequency of over/under extrusion you're seeing. If you're using Chinese cloned gears (I think the Bear uses Bondtech BMG parts), this is quite likely!

                    Edit: Could also be caused by using very coarse hobbed drive.

                    Ian

                    Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Dec 2019, 11:22 Reply Quote 1
                    • undefined
                      Murloc992 @droftarts
                      last edited by Murloc992 18 Dec 2019, 11:22

                      @droftarts

                      This might be a possibility. I use a genuine Prusa MK2.5S that was torn apart and resurrected into a Full Bear + Bear Extruder + Duet + New motors(now).

                      The gears are genuine Bondtech, extruder is as direct as it gets (Bear Extruder), but I wonder how can it be eccentric.. With old motor I didn't have this.. Maybe a difference in flatspots? Or could it have happened if I tightened onto the flatspot a bit angled? Maybe a bent motor shaft (I hope not..)?

                      "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Dec 2019, 11:38 Reply Quote 0
                      • undefined
                        droftarts administrators @Murloc992
                        last edited by 18 Dec 2019, 11:38

                        @Murloc992 Quite possibly one of those! As it's so consistent, I'd think it has to be mechanical. If you can't spot anything obvious, maybe refit the old motor and revert extruder settings in config.g?

                        Ian

                        Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

                        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Dec 2019, 11:39 Reply Quote 0
                        • undefined
                          Murloc992 @droftarts
                          last edited by 18 Dec 2019, 11:39

                          @droftarts

                          Every time I have to take the extruder of a prusa apart(including the wiring loom) I die a little inside, but I guess I will have to if I can't center the main gear.. 😞

                          Will need to upgrade the extruder wiring loom someday to use a PCB at the back, so the wiring loom will be independent..

                          "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • undefined
                            Phaedrux Moderator
                            last edited by 18 Dec 2019, 18:16

                            The fact that you can hear it pulsing makes me think it's the motor itself. Does it still sound like that if you run it free of any connection to the extruder gearing?

                            Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Dec 2019, 20:41 Reply Quote 0
                            • undefined
                              Murloc992
                              last edited by 18 Dec 2019, 20:39

                              The motor shaft is straight, the gear is straight. Motor switch didn't help. All of them pulse. I will try reducing my microsteps to 8.. Maybe somebody knows about a TMC parameter called "Velocity"? I remember there's some register adjustments but I can't find it at the moment..

                              "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • undefined
                                Murloc992 @Phaedrux
                                last edited by Murloc992 18 Dec 2019, 20:41

                                @Phaedrux It does, in fact, all the 0.9 degree motors I bought sound like that. Even without load.. I suspect that I need to adjust something in the drivers themselves. I used 1.8 degree steppers, now I got 0.9 degree ones.

                                "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • undefined
                                  Phaedrux Moderator
                                  last edited by 18 Dec 2019, 20:44

                                  What is the power supply?

                                  Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Dec 2019, 20:58 Reply Quote 0
                                  • undefined
                                    Murloc992 @Phaedrux
                                    last edited by 18 Dec 2019, 20:58

                                    @Phaedrux Whatever came with Prusa MK2S originally.. 12V and I guess 20A? Maybe 15A, not sure.

                                    "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • undefined
                                      Phaedrux Moderator
                                      last edited by 18 Dec 2019, 21:01

                                      Can you post the results of an M122 command after doing a print?

                                      Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                                      undefined 2 Replies Last reply 18 Dec 2019, 21:03 Reply Quote 0
                                      • undefined
                                        Phaedrux Moderator
                                        last edited by 18 Dec 2019, 21:02

                                        Using 8x microstepping probably won't do much other than make the motor noisier.

                                        I use the same E3D motor for my Titan aero without such a pattern.

                                        Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • undefined
                                          Murloc992 @Phaedrux
                                          last edited by Murloc992 18 Dec 2019, 21:03

                                          @Phaedrux

                                          M122
                                          === Diagnostics ===
                                          RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet version 2.04 running on Duet WiFi 1.02 or later
                                          Board ID: 08DGM-9T6BU-FG3S4-6JKDD-3S06R-KBQ3D
                                          Used output buffers: 3 of 24 (7 max)
                                          === RTOS ===
                                          Static ram: 25680
                                          Dynamic ram: 92824 of which 0 recycled
                                          Exception stack ram used: 436
                                          Never used ram: 12132
                                          Tasks: NETWORK(ready,628) HEAT(blocked,1232) MAIN(running,1664) IDLE(ready,200)
                                          Owned mutexes:
                                          === Platform ===
                                          Last reset 00:06:26 ago, cause: software
                                          Last software reset time unknown, reason: User, spinning module GCodes, available RAM 12132 bytes (slot 0)
                                          Software reset code 0x0003 HFSR 0x00000000 CFSR 0x00000000 ICSR 0x0441f000 BFAR 0xe000ed38 SP 0xffffffff Task 0x4e49414d
                                          Error status: 0
                                          Free file entries: 9
                                          SD card 0 detected, interface speed: 20.0MBytes/sec
                                          SD card longest block write time: 10.7ms, max retries 0
                                          MCU temperature: min 41.3, current 41.7, max 42.4
                                          Supply voltage: min 12.1, current 13.0, max 13.5, under voltage events: 0, over voltage events: 0, power good: yes
                                          Driver 0: ok, SG min/max 0/384
                                          Driver 1: standstill, SG min/max 0/400
                                          Driver 2: ok, SG min/max not available
                                          Driver 3: ok, SG min/max 0/463
                                          Driver 4: ok, SG min/max not available
                                          Date/time: 2019-12-18 23:02:44
                                          Cache data hit count 1365610563
                                          Slowest loop: 117.87ms; fastest: 0.06ms
                                          I2C nak errors 0, send timeouts 0, receive timeouts 0, finishTimeouts 0, resets 0
                                          === Move ===
                                          Hiccups: 0, FreeDm: 157, MinFreeDm: 146, MaxWait: 135474ms
                                          Bed compensation in use: mesh, comp offset 0.007
                                          === DDARing ===
                                          Scheduled moves: 357, completed moves: 353, StepErrors: 0, LaErrors: 0, Underruns: 0, 0
                                          === Heat ===
                                          Bed heaters = 0 -1 -1 -1, chamberHeaters = -1 -1
                                          Heater 0 is on, I-accum = 0.7
                                          Heater 1 is on, I-accum = 0.6
                                          === GCodes ===
                                          Segments left: 1
                                          Stack records: 2 allocated, 0 in use
                                          Movement lock held by null
                                          http is idle in state(s) 0
                                          telnet is idle in state(s) 0
                                          file is doing "G1 Z2.198 X134.775 Y95.225 E0.63527" in state(s) 0
                                          serial is idle in state(s) 0
                                          aux is idle in state(s) 0
                                          daemon is idle in state(s) 0
                                          queue is idle in state(s) 0
                                          autopause is idle in state(s) 0
                                          Code queue is empty.
                                          === Network ===
                                          Slowest loop: 83.15ms; fastest: 0.00ms
                                          Responder states: HTTP(0) HTTP(0) HTTP(0) HTTP(0) FTP(0) Telnet(0) Telnet(0)
                                          HTTP sessions: 1 of 8
                                          - WiFi -
                                          Network state is running
                                          WiFi module is connected to access point
                                          Failed messages: pending 0, notready 0, noresp 0
                                          WiFi firmware version 1.23
                                          WiFi MAC address 80:7d:3a:15:2c:b0
                                          WiFi Vcc 3.39, reset reason Turned on by main processor
                                          WiFi flash size 4194304, free heap 25696
                                          WiFi IP address 192.168.1.253
                                          WiFi signal strength -44dBm, reconnections 0, sleep mode modem
                                          Socket states: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
                                          === Filament sensors ===
                                          Extruder 0 sensor: ok

                                          I am doing a print right now, so here you go. 🙂

                                          FYI the PSU IS overvolted to 12.5V.

                                          @Phaedrux said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

                                          Using 8x microstepping probably won't do much other than make the motor noisier.

                                          Yup, didn't do anything. 😄

                                          "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

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