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Blobs with PA and w/o

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved
Tuning and tweaking
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  • undefined
    felt342
    last edited by felt342 18 Jan 2020, 18:44

    Hello,

    I am struggling to tune my PA setting to get rid of blobs on every layer change. I did try PA 0.25-0.8 with no luck. Then switched to coast and wipe in Simplify3D feels a bit better but still not what I expect. Bowden tube is 850mm. BMG extruder. Custom CoreXY. 9mm retraction.

    There is my config.g. Maybe somebody can guide me through what else I can tweak? Thank you!

    ; Configuration file for Duet WiFi (firmware version 2.03)
    ; executed by the firmware on start-up
    ;
    ; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v2.1.4 on Thu Jan 02 2020 22:17:48 GMT+0100 (Central European Standard Time)
    ; General preferences
    G90 ; send absolute coordinates...
    M83 ; ...but relative extruder moves
    M550 P"own" ; set printer name
    M667 S1 ; select CoreXY mode
    ; Network
    M552 S1 ; enable network
    M586 P0 S1 ; enable HTTP
    M586 P1 S0 ; disable FTP
    M586 P2 S0 ; disable Telnet
    ; Drives
    M569 P0 S1 ; physical drive 0 goes forwards
    M569 P1 S1 ; physical drive 1 goes forwards
    M569 P2 S1 ; physical drive 2 goes forwards
    M569 P3 S0 ; physical drive 3 goes backwards
    M569 P4 S1 ; physical drive 4 goes forwards
    M584 X0 Y1 Z2 E3:4 ; set drive mapping
    M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16:16 I1 ; configure microstepping with interpolation
    M92 X201.207 Y201.207 Z400.00 E415:415 ; set steps per mm
    M566 X1300 Y1300 Z80 E1200.00:1200.00 ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
    M203 X10000 Y10000.00 Z200 E10000.00:10000.00 ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
    M201 X900 Y900 Z250 E10000.00:10000.00 ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
    M906 X800 Y800 Z1300 E700:700 I30 ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
    M84 S90 ; Set idle timeout
    ;M572 D0:1 S0.45:0.45 ; Pressure advance
    ; Axis Limits
    M208 X-12 Y0 Z0 S1 ; set axis minima
    M208 X316 Y267.5 Z334 S0 ; set axis maxima
    ; Endstops
    M574 X1 Y1 S0 ; set active low and disabled endstops
    M574 Z1 S2 ; set endstops controlled by probe
    ; Z-Probe
    M307 H3 A-1 C-1 D-1 ; disable heater on PWM channel for BLTouch
    M558 P9 H5 F300 T15000 ; set Z probe type to bltouch and the dive height + speeds
    G31 P500 X-10 Y-51.5 Z0.8 ; set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height
    M557 X0:290 Y0:250 S15 ; define mesh grid
    ; Heaters
    M140 H-1 ; disable heated bed
    M305 P1 X200 ; configure PT100 for heater 1
    M143 H1 S450 ; set temperature limit for heater 1 to 450C
    M305 P2 X201 ; configure PT100 for heater 2
    M143 H2 S450 ; set temperature limit for heater 2 to 450C
    ; Fans
    M106 P0 S0 I0 F500 H-1 ; set fan 0 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned off
    M106 P1 S1 I0 F500 H-1 ; set fan 1 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned off
    M106 P2 S1 I0 F500 H-1 ; set fan 2 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned off
    ; Tools
    M563 P0 S"Left" D0 H1 F-1 ; define tool 0
    G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0 ; set tool 0 axis offsets
    G10 P0 S0 R0 ; Set tool 0 active and standby temperatures
    M563 P1 S"Right" D1 H2 F-1 ; define tool 1
    G10 P1 X20 Y0 Z0 ; set tool 1 axis offsets
    G10 P1 S0 R0 ; Set tool 0 active and standby temperatures
    ; Custom settings are not defined
    ; Miscellaneous
    M501 ; load saved parameters from non-volatile memory

    IMG_5819.jpg

    Industrial 3D printing service in the Netherlands - gagatstudio.com

    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 20 Jan 2020, 17:40 Reply Quote 0
    • undefined
      Veti
      last edited by 18 Jan 2020, 18:56

      it does look like there is a lot of backlash on your printer.
      while the motors are energized. grab the hotend and try to move it with a finger. idealy it should not move.

      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Jan 2020, 19:00 Reply Quote 0
      • undefined
        felt342 @Veti
        last edited by 18 Jan 2020, 19:00

        @Veti

        Just tried that, I should push really hard to make gantry move.

        Industrial 3D printing service in the Netherlands - gagatstudio.com

        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Jan 2020, 19:03 Reply Quote 0
        • undefined
          Veti @felt342
          last edited by 18 Jan 2020, 19:03

          @felt342 said in Blobs with PA and w/o:

          Just tried that, I should push really hard to make gantry move.

          no its about play in the position in the hotend.
          i.e can you move it with one finger like a mm back and forth.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backlash_(engineering)

          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Jan 2020, 19:06 Reply Quote 0
          • undefined
            felt342 @Veti
            last edited by 18 Jan 2020, 19:06

            @Veti

            Oh sorry, seems stable, doesnt move at all to me.

            Industrial 3D printing service in the Netherlands - gagatstudio.com

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • undefined
              Veti
              last edited by 18 Jan 2020, 19:11

              @felt342 said in Blobs with PA and w/o:

              E415

              can you set your E steps to 375 and do a test print

              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Jan 2020, 19:47 Reply Quote 0
              • undefined
                felt342 @Veti
                last edited by 18 Jan 2020, 19:47

                @Veti
                There is it, looks the same to me.

                IMG_5824.jpeg

                Industrial 3D printing service in the Netherlands - gagatstudio.com

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • undefined
                  Veti
                  last edited by 18 Jan 2020, 20:31

                  does the printhead spend a lot of time in those corners?

                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Jan 2020, 20:37 Reply Quote 0
                  • undefined
                    Veti
                    last edited by 18 Jan 2020, 20:37

                    and to rule out the slicer. can you test with a different slicer. i.e prusaslicer or cura.

                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Jan 2020, 20:38 Reply Quote 0
                    • undefined
                      felt342 @Veti
                      last edited by 18 Jan 2020, 20:37

                      @Veti

                      No, It was before until I crank up acceleration and jerk for a extruder. Than it’s start moving instantly but those corners still left. Shall I make a small video?

                      Industrial 3D printing service in the Netherlands - gagatstudio.com

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • undefined
                        felt342 @Veti
                        last edited by 18 Jan 2020, 20:38

                        @Veti

                        Ok I will try Cura!

                        Industrial 3D printing service in the Netherlands - gagatstudio.com

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • undefined
                          felt342
                          last edited by 19 Jan 2020, 08:29

                          @Veti

                          I did try Cura, was looking the same to me. I switched to Simplify3D back as I am familiar with it. I did turn off retraction completely and PA. Was a lot of oozing but had minimal blobs. Tune retraction to 3.0mm extra restart distance of -0.2 and PA 0.45 lead to those results, which is finally a progress, blobs are getting much less visible, but still there - I guess tweaking retractions and PA next? I have been a bit surprised how it was possible with such a long tube of 850mm to have 3mm retraction only.

                          There is a couple of images: first, around 20 layers was without PA just retraction of 3.mm. After PA was set to 0.45.

                          IMG_5826.jpeg IMG_5825.jpeg

                          Industrial 3D printing service in the Netherlands - gagatstudio.com

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • undefined
                            Phaedrux Moderator @felt342
                            last edited by Phaedrux 20 Jan 2020, 17:40

                            @felt342 said in Blobs with PA and w/o:

                            I did try PA 0.25-0.8 with no luck. Bowden tube is 850mm.

                            You should try more PA with such a long bowden tube. Some people are using 1 or more.

                            https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Pressure_advance#Section_How_much_pressure_advance_to_use

                            Use the test procedure described here to test values from 0.8 up to 1 and see if you can start to notice a difference. Disable wipe and coast when using pressure advance.

                            Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • undefined
                              felt342
                              last edited by felt342 20 Jan 2020, 18:15

                              I did try out PA till 2.0 with 0.10 steps with wipe and coast disabled. I could not reach the desired effect and I could not see any difference higher than 0.7 to be honest. I turned off PA completely switched back to coast and wipe set in Simplify3D:

                              So far these settings gave me the best result - I would say almost perfect. I do have high-speed settings a bit- therefore there is ringing. Now it's a time to tweak it and hopefully not produce blobs again... 🙂

                              M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16:16 I1 ; configure microstepping with interpolation
                              M92 X201.207 Y201.207 Z400.00 E415:415 ; set steps per mm
                              M566 X2000 Y2000 Z350 E3000.00:3000.00 ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
                              M203 X10000 Y10000.00 Z400 E10000.00:10000.00 ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
                              M201 X900 Y900 Z600 E4000.00:4000.00 ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
                              M906 X800 Y800 Z1300 E700:700 I30 ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
                              M84 S90 ; Set idle timeout

                              Capture.JPG

                              IMG_5833.jpeg IMG_5834.jpeg IMG_5831.jpeg IMG_5832.jpeg

                              Industrial 3D printing service in the Netherlands - gagatstudio.com

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • undefined
                                Phaedrux Moderator
                                last edited by 20 Jan 2020, 18:17

                                Good stuff. Very long bowden setups are hard to tune. That's looking quite good.

                                Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                                undefined 2 Replies Last reply 20 Jan 2020, 18:33 Reply Quote 1
                                • undefined
                                  felt342 @Phaedrux
                                  last edited by 20 Jan 2020, 18:33

                                  @Phaedrux

                                  Yeah after reading a bunch of forums and blobs related issue I start to regret about using bowden, until now... will see, keep tweaking. Still thinking would be better to come back on using PA, just need more time for tweaking I guess.

                                  Industrial 3D printing service in the Netherlands - gagatstudio.com

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • undefined
                                    felt342 @Phaedrux
                                    last edited by 21 Jan 2020, 19:18

                                    @Phaedrux

                                    My next problem appears to be - ringing!
                                    I just changed my jerk and acceleration of XYZ back to more or less normal values from

                                    M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16:16 I1 ; configure microstepping with interpolation
                                    M92 X201.207 Y201.207 Z400.00 E415:415 ; set steps per mm
                                    M566 X2000 Y2000 Z350 E3000.00:3000.00 ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
                                    M203 X10000 Y10000.00 Z400 E10000.00:10000.00 ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
                                    M201 X900 Y900 Z600 E4000.00:4000.00 ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
                                    M906 X800 Y800 Z1300 E700:700 I30 ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
                                    M84 S90 ; Set idle timeout

                                    to

                                    M92 X201.207 Y201.207 Z400.00 E415:415 ; set steps per mm
                                    M566 X700 Y700 Z250 E3000.00:3000.00 ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
                                    M203 X10000 Y10000.00 Z300 E10000.00:10000.00 ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
                                    M201 X800 Y800 Z400 E4000.00:4000.00 ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
                                    M906 X800 Y800 Z1300 E700:700 I30 ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
                                    M84 S90 ; Set idle timeout

                                    And got this huge ringing effect, is that normal? I would prefer to use lower values of jerk/acceleration, as my printer works quiter with those values. Does it mean what higher jerk can solve some of ring effects?

                                    IMG_5839.jpeg

                                    Industrial 3D printing service in the Netherlands - gagatstudio.com

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • DocTruckerundefined
                                      DocTrucker
                                      last edited by DocTrucker 21 Jan 2020, 20:53

                                      Have a read up on Dynamic Acceleration Adjustment, or DAA for short. Do a search for that in the duet gcode wiki. It helped my machines.

                                      Edit: https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M593_Configure_Dynamic_Acceleration_Adjustment

                                      Running 3 P3Steel with Duet 2. Duet 3 on the shelf looking for a suitable machine. One first generation Duet in a Logo/Turtle style robot!

                                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 21 Jan 2020, 21:46 Reply Quote 1
                                      • undefined
                                        felt342 @DocTrucker
                                        last edited by 21 Jan 2020, 21:46

                                        @DocTrucker

                                        Thats a lot looks promising. I will give an try tomorrow after work.
                                        Really surprised how many cool features those Duet boards have...!

                                        Industrial 3D printing service in the Netherlands - gagatstudio.com

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • grizewaldundefined
                                          grizewald
                                          last edited by 22 Jan 2020, 01:33

                                          @felt342 That's a very impressive tune for such a long Bowden tube. I gave up trying to get such a long tube to work on my CoreXY and converted it to direct drive instead.

                                          It wasn't that I couldn't get the machine to print nice cubes (and without the warping you have on the bottom of yours), but what worked for one print wouldn't work for the next one.

                                          Direct drive fixed all that and made the printer much more consistent.

                                          Ringing is fixed in two ways: slow down or stiffen up!

                                          If there is a resonance problem, DAA can fix that. If there are other problems with the mechanics or simply exceeding the acceleration that the frame can tolerate, then DAA will not help you.

                                          If slowing down doesn't cure the problem, then you need to look hard at the motion system.

                                          If it helps, these are my settings for the motion system from my V-Core CoreXY. It can print close to 300x300x300mm and runs on 24V with beefy 2A 4.8Kg/cm NEMA17 stepper motors which drive 9mm wide belts.

                                          The theoretical maximums were calculated using wilriker's Maximun Accelleration calculator and other calculators available at reprapfirmware.org and reprap.org

                                          ; Motion settings
                                          ;
                                          ; The V-Core is theoretically capable of the following settings:
                                          ; M566 X1200.00 Y1200.00 Z100.00 E3600.00 ; Maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
                                          ; M203 X18000.00 Y18000.00 Z600.00 E3600.00 ; Maximum speeds (mm/min)
                                          ; M201 X5800.00 Y5800.00 Z180.00 E3600.00 ; Maximum accelerations (mm/s^2) for X and Y. Z and E are best guesses
                                          M566 X600.00 Y600.00 Z100.00 E3600.00 ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
                                          M203 X18000.00 Y18000.00 Z600.00 E3600.00 ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
                                          M201 X600.00 Y600.00 Z180.00 E3600.00 ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
                                          M906 X1600.00 Y1600.00 Z1800.00 E595.00 I30 ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor as percentage of normal current

                                          My print speeds are dynamic and depend on things like if the printer is printing infill, outer perimeters or bridges. Print speeds range from 30 - 100mm/s with travel moves at 200mm/s. I use Prusa Slicer and take advantage of the volumetric speed limit to restrict the maximum volumetric speed when slicing to what I know the particular filament is capable of. I find this gives me much more consistent dimensions and interlayer adhesion.

                                          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 22 Jan 2020, 08:30 Reply Quote 2
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