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Duet Maesto Stepper Driver Expansion Schematic

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  • undefined
    Wurstkarton
    last edited by 5 May 2020, 08:35

    I am looking for a schematic of the Duet Maestro stepper driver expansion.

    For the Maestro itself, you can find it on github. What about the expansion? Is this available as well?

    Thanks!

    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
    • undefined
      T3P3Tony administrators
      last edited by T3P3Tony 5 May 2020, 09:16 5 May 2020, 09:15

      It was designed by M3D, I will ask them for it. It is basically the same as the TMC2208 elements of the shcematic on the Maestro itself tho.

      www.duet3d.com

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • undefined
        Wurstkarton
        last edited by 5 May 2020, 09:54

        Thats what I am guessing, but I would like to verify it. I have still this strange issue that the expansion does not perform as well as the onboard steppers. The print results are identical, but the noise is worse.

        Schematic would help a ton. Thanks!

        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 5 May 2020, 11:09 Reply Quote 0
        • undefined
          dc42 administrators @Wurstkarton
          last edited by dc42 5 May 2020, 11:09 5 May 2020, 11:09

          @Wurstkarton said in Duet Maesto Stepper Driver Expansion Schematic:

          The print results are identical, but the noise is worse.

          Are you using any M569 settings to change the driver mode; and if so, are you using the same settings on the expansion drivers as on the main board drivers?

          Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
          Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
          http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 5 May 2020, 18:22 Reply Quote 0
          • undefined
            Wurstkarton @dc42
            last edited by 5 May 2020, 18:22

            @dc42
            Yes, I am using this command.

            M569 P0 S0 D3 V1000
            M569 P1 S0 D3 V1000
            M569 P2 S1 D3 V1000
            M569 P3 S0 D3 V1000
            M569 P4 S1 D3 V1000
            M569 P5 S0 D3 V1000
            M569 P6 S1 D3 V1000

            Same Motors. Same extruders. Same settings. I created a thread about it a while back (see this thread), but had other issues to fight with up to now.

            The conclusion at the time was:

            • tried 2 Maestros with same result
            • tried 2 Expansion boards with same result
            • tried different cables (same type though) with same result
            • tried different motors (same type though) with same result

            So it might be that the expansion cannot handle this type of motor well? Or the cable length is a problem (50cm)?

            Anyways, I would like to try and take a look at it myself. To do so, I want to see the schematic.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • undefined
              dc42 administrators
              last edited by dc42 5 May 2020, 21:36 5 May 2020, 21:35

              Thanks. The difference might possibly be caused by differences in layout between the daughter board and the main board. I don't know whether M3D copied our main board layout for the daughter board, or did their own layout.

              I can't imagine that 50cm cable length would be a problem.

              Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
              Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
              http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • undefined
                T3P3Tony administrators
                last edited by 5 May 2020, 23:39

                @Wurstkarton got the thumbs up:
                https://github.com/T3P3/Duet/blob/master/Duet_Expansion/Maestro_Expansion/Duet 2 Maestro - Expansion Schematic.PDF

                www.duet3d.com

                undefined 1 Reply Last reply 6 May 2020, 09:30 Reply Quote 0
                • undefined
                  Wurstkarton @T3P3Tony
                  last edited by 6 May 2020, 09:30

                  @T3P3Tony Thank you! That was quick.

                  I'll take a look later.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • undefined
                    Wurstkarton
                    last edited by 11 May 2020, 11:12

                    From the schematic, I do not really see any noteworthy difference. As @dc42 mentioned, it rather might be the implementation in the layout.

                    Anyways, I'll use a current probe with an osci this week to assess the differences. I'll come back with what I find.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • undefined
                      Wurstkarton
                      last edited by 13 May 2020, 16:21

                      I performed the analysis and checked the current fed by the drivers into the motors using a scope + current probe attached to a single wire of the motor.

                      This is how a onboard driver performs (P4, TBL = 1, different feedrates):

                      B1_f300.png
                      B1_f1800.png
                      B1_f3600.png

                      As can be observed, the waveforms are very smooth. At 60mm/s, you can see that the sine wave gets jagged (which is fine for higher speeds).

                      This is how P6 performs (TBL = 1):

                      B1_f300.png
                      B1_f1800.png
                      B1_f3600.png

                      This also looks pretty good. Although it is a touch less smooth as before.

                      Now to the black sheep in the flock, P5 (5mm/s for TBL 0,1 and 2):

                      B0_f300.png
                      B1_f300.png
                      B2_f300.png

                      I found that setting TBL to 1 seems to yield the best result, which is why I also used this setting for the other drivers. Taking a look at higher velocities, we can see that this driver definitely performs worse:

                      B1_f1800.png
                      B1_f3600.png

                      Interestingly, P5 is the driver, which has this hole in the PCB to allow for a mechanical spacer.

                      To do for me: Split up the two expansion boards I have and insert both P6 steppers into the P5+P6 sockets on the Maestro. I'll see if I can manage on the weekend (although I am not sure how to do this exactly. Don't want to break anything).

                      To do for you guys: Please try to get your hands on the layout. This rough floorplan in the .pdf does not show any traces or ground planes.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • undefined
                        dc42 administrators
                        last edited by 13 May 2020, 19:04

                        Do you have identical stepper motors connected to P5 and P6?

                        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • undefined
                          Wurstkarton
                          last edited by Wurstkarton 13 May 2020, 19:41

                          I disconnected the cables from the motors and attached it to the same motor every time for the measurements.

                          [Edit]: I'll try and set everything up on the weekend. I think I will be able to conclude if it is a problem with the expansion or with my setup.

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • undefined
                            dc42 administrators
                            last edited by 13 May 2020, 20:00

                            Do you find P5 noisier than P6 when driving the same motor at the same speed?

                            Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                            Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                            http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 14 May 2020, 05:45 Reply Quote 0
                            • undefined
                              Wurstkarton @dc42
                              last edited by 14 May 2020, 05:45

                              @dc42 yes. P6 is as quiet as the internal ones (more or less). P5 ist causing a lot of vibration and noise.

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • undefined
                                dc42 administrators
                                last edited by 14 May 2020, 06:35

                                You said you have two expansion boards. Is P5 noisy on both of them?

                                Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                undefined 1 Reply Last reply 14 May 2020, 17:38 Reply Quote 0
                                • undefined
                                  Wurstkarton @dc42
                                  last edited by Wurstkarton 14 May 2020, 17:38

                                  @dc42 I just did the exercise and switched the expansion board. Same result.

                                  I thought that it might be the cables. So I decided to switch those too. Also, I twisted the pairs, but that also did not have an impact.

                                  Some more insight I have found: only one of the two current paths is affected. Output 1 of P5. Output 2 is fine. Somehow the upper (well, upper depends on your point of view, but it is clear what I mean 😉 ) part of the sine wave gets a bit chopped of output 1.

                                  Consequently, the two coils in the motor see a different current and hence are driven assymetrically. For me, it now looks like a bug (although it would be nice if someone else could try the same).

                                  https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Dual_Stepper_Driver_Expansion_Module

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                                  • undefined
                                    Wurstkarton
                                    last edited by Wurstkarton 15 May 2020, 18:48

                                    Okay. So I split up both of my expansions (one of which already had a groove and was easy, the other one was more work) and installed both "P6" to the Maestro.

                                    Everything is running fine now! 🙂

                                    Well, this concludes it for me. I have two leftover P5 - if someone is interested. 😏

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • undefined
                                      BotLawson
                                      last edited by 18 May 2020, 01:45

                                      Replacing the controller on a Chinese IDEX printer with a Duet 2 Maestro + Stepper Driver Expansion and I've run into this same problem. P5 is VERY noisy when it switches to SpreadCycle mode. Sounds almost like the stepper is stalled and you can feel the carriage vibrate while moving. (double checked the wiring, haven't crossed anything...) I'm using the same stepper motor on the P0 channel, and P0 is silent.

                                      Anyone figured out what's wrong with the P5 stepper driver on the expansion? Does it need some components replaced? (wrong Capacitor or resistor somewhere?)

                                      For now I've worked around it by setting the "V" parameter to 25 so it says in Stealth chop for most moves. It also got better when I swapped the X1 and X2 motors and wires. The motors are the same part number but, the X2 motor has longer wires.

                                      M569 P5 S1 D3 V25                                 	; physical drive 5 goes forwards E2 (Very noisy!)
                                      
                                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 May 2020, 14:46 Reply Quote 0
                                      • undefined
                                        Wurstkarton @BotLawson
                                        last edited by 18 May 2020, 14:46

                                        @BotLawson I think there is a flaw with the design of the expansion. Even P6 produces slightly worse results than the internal steppers.

                                        As for P5, there might be a way to fix it by comparing the layout of P5 with P6 and find the difference. Still missing this file though.

                                        From looking at the PCB, there is not much to observe between the two...

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • undefined
                                          dc42 administrators
                                          last edited by 18 May 2020, 14:48

                                          Do the passive components around the TMC2224 chip look identical on both parts of the boards that you have?

                                          Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                          Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                          http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 May 2020, 14:51 Reply Quote 0
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