Where's the Duet Wifi 3?

BDubs · 20 Dec 2020, 14:39

I just completed (mostly) my custom CR10S5 using a Duet Wifi 2. I really like the RepRap firmware and how easy it is to tweak things. I really don't miss recompiling Marlin...

Since I've been bitten by the proverbial bug...I now want to upgrade some of my other printers to Duet - but aside from the Duet 3 Mini - I didn't see another Duet 3 board with onboard wifi. What's up with that?

Why would I want to add another piece of hardware (RPi) to the board just to get wifi? Is there a wifi module in the works for the flagship board or am I stuck with using the older wifi 2 board? I was so close to pulling the trigger on 2 new Duet 3 boards yesterday and stopped because it doesn't have wifi - only via RPi & I suDon't know enough to be comfortable in Linux...It's painful.

As a side note...I get the part about wifi not being a robust means of COMs in an industrial environment - probably more than most. Are there plans for a Wifi3 variant? Wifi Daughter board? Inquiring minds want to know...

chrishamm · 20 Dec 2020, 14:46

There will be two variants of the Duet 3 Mini 5+, one with Ethernet and one with WiFi. Both will continue to work in standalone mode so you can use them just like a Duet 2 Ethernet or WiFi. SBC support will remain optional.

BDubs · 20 Dec 2020, 14:53

@chrishamm said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

Duet 3 Mini 5+

Yeah...I saw the Duet 3 Mini 5+ with external antenna, but it's not quite as full featured as the flagship model. In fact looking at the Mini, it reminds me of the controller Prusa used on the mk2 machines...even though it's 'more than that'.

Veti · 20 Dec 2020, 14:59

what features are you missing on the duet mini 5?

BDubs · 20 Dec 2020, 15:10

Faster processor speed (300Mhz vs 120MHz)
Higher current onboard drivers for NEMA23/34 motors
More GPIO
etc, etc...

Why settle for less?

The Wifi 2 is such a popular board, the natural progression would be a Wifi 3. I see the direction going towards being a general CNC controller, but honestly there are much better existing controllers for that already that are well sorted (IE - Centroid Acorn) - I just feel like this is the best 3DP controller on the market...why is it being abandoned/going backwards? Of course, that's my opinion as a customer...with no offense given.

zapta · 20 Dec 2020, 15:30

@BDubs said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

why is it being abandoned/going backwards?

My guess is that Duet want to better target the high end with 3 and the lower end with the minis. Your Nema 23/24 sounds more like high end.

(I am speculating.).

Veti · 20 Dec 2020, 15:37

@BDubs said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

Faster processor speed (300Mhz vs 120MHz)

thats where the pi comes in, give you even faster speed and wifi

BDubs · 20 Dec 2020, 15:47

Yeah...'high end' is fine with me. I want the flagship model and don't mind paying for it.

I guess my point is, take any device/appliance that has/had wifi, then 'upgrade' it with better components, like the processor, drivers and IO, but then arbitrarily remove the wifi from it?...I don't get it.

I mean, why would I want to buy another Wifi 2 (which is 5yrs old now) ? No doubt, it's still a great piece of hardware...but I'd prefer the latest and greatest in Wifi form.

Imagine if they came out with a laptop that didn't support wifi - RJ45 only...BUT if you plug in a RPi to it, you can get wifi again. Right?

I'm disappointed nobody chimed in on the first post or two saying something to the effect of, "Oh yeah, the Wifi 3 is coming 2nd Q 21 - It's gonna be great!" But alas...no. 'Budget" aka 'Diet coke' mini 5 or Duet 3 with RPi are the choices.

As a customer I'm thinking to myself, "Wow this Wifi 2 is great! ~ I can hardly wait to buy a Wifi 3!" But it's not the same thing...there's not even a provision on the Duet 3 for a NRF24L01 Wireless Module to plug in ... It just seems awfully backwards to me.

BDubs · 20 Dec 2020, 15:49

@Veti said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

@BDubs said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

Faster processor speed (300Mhz vs 120MHz)

thats where the pi comes in, give you even faster speed and wifi

I get the wifi part. What 'speed' are you referring to exactly? The speed of what is better because of the RPi?

Veti · 20 Dec 2020, 15:55

@BDubs said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

The speed of what is better because of the RPi?

the pi 4 has a 4x 1,8 ghz processor. it handles data transfer and processing in sbc mode

BDubs · 20 Dec 2020, 16:10

@Veti said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

@BDubs said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

The speed of what is better because of the RPi?

the pi 4 has a 4x 1,8 ghz processor. it handles data transfer and processing in sbc mode

I don't know what SBC is in this context.

So far, data transfer via Duet 2 has not been a problem/slow for me. My understanding is the entire GCode file is transferred in its entirety to the SD card before any motion takes place. The onboard processor then parses out chunks of the code and loads it into the buffer and does all its look-ahead calculations - on the Duet. There is (or rather there should not be) any GCode commands flying through the air via wifi during the print, aside from feedback updating the console or changes you've made on screen, such as baby stepping or adjusting fans etc. - which are handled/calculated on the Duet board and not your PC/phone et al. The Duet simply transforms the existing file and settings...

So...the RPi can have a gajillion Ghz processor on it and it won't make the Duet processor run any faster. File transfer may be faster due to newer wireless hardware on the RPi, but aside from this, I don't think anyone will see a huge difference vs the Wifi 2 or what could have been the Wifi 3. You still have to go through your router...

Stephen6309 · 20 Dec 2020, 16:13

@BDubs The PI4 can use the 5ghz wifi, and it's faster than the 2.4ghz wifi that the Duet 2 uses.

Veti · 20 Dec 2020, 16:18

@BDubs

sbc stands for single board computer. the pi in this case

the onboard sd card slot is not used in sbc mode. the pi acts as a virtual sd card slot.
the calculation for the movement actually happen on the pi in this case and not the duet processor.
think of it like klipper.

elmoret · 20 Dec 2020, 17:00

Embedded options for wifi (ESP chips) are really not great. The Pi's wifi is considerably better.

What is the difference between buying a Duet 3 6HC + Raspberry Pi and the board you propose? I'm not sure I see the issue here, and the Raspberry Pi offers a whole lot more functionality than just wifi.

elmoret · 20 Dec 2020, 17:08

@BDubs said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

As a customer I'm thinking to myself, "Wow this Wifi 2 is great! ~ I can hardly wait to buy a Wifi 3!" But it's not the same thing...there's not even a provision on the Duet 3 for a NRF24L01 Wireless Module to plug in ... It just seems awfully backwards to me.

NRF24s are not wifi devices, for starters.

BDubs · 20 Dec 2020, 17:20

I used the NRF24 as an example...not getting caught up in the technical minutia - I don't think it's outside the realm of reasonable expectation to desire a Duet Wifi 3. Why doesn't the Duet 3 use similar wifi hardware as the RPi? (I say this redundantly...with partial wishful thinking)

OK...well I guess the only way is to use a RPi then. Why my reluctance to it? Because it took me like 2 days just to cobble together a PiHole and sudo this and that isn't 2nd nature...there are so many things with Linux where it is assumed you know (or should know) something and you have to go half way around the world to figure out what that is exactly. Granted, many things are just download and install - but it's another layer of expertise you need over the Wifi 2. My time for learning is short and prone to frequent interruption...

I guess I'll have to bite the bullet...albeit reluctantly. Thanks for the replies.

Phaedrux · 20 Dec 2020, 17:49

The reason for the Pi is that it opens up a lot of additional functionality like large touch screen displays, wifi connectivity, post processing, plugins, etc.

There is a premade image for the Pi that comes loaded with everything required. So if you managed a PiHole this is a walk in the park.

Your request for a wifi version of the Duet 3 is noted.

oliof · 20 Dec 2020, 17:57

I found using a little travel access point like the GL.inet AR-300 brings wifi to the ethernet only devices (like the duet 0.6 board on the Ormerod i am still working on ... although that's currently running a duet3 mini), with very little hassle.

elmoret · 20 Dec 2020, 18:24

@BDubs said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

I used the NRF24 as an example...not getting caught up in the technical minutia - I don't think it's outside the realm of reasonable expectation to desire a Duet Wifi 3. Why doesn't the Duet 3 use similar wifi hardware as the RPi? (I say this redundantly...with partial wishful thinking)

Lots of reasons.

The parts used by the Raspberry Pi are not used in an off-the-shelf module, so it would require doing some pretty complicated RF design
Using off the shelf/already certified modules like the ESP or Raspberry Pi simplifies regulatory requirements (you can't just design your own radio transmitter/receiver and sell it)

I'm not sure I understand the difference between a "NRF24 style" module/board and a RPi, why the former is acceptable and the latter isn't. SD card images already exist for a RaspberryPi/Duet3 setup.

Or, as has been suggested in this thread, you can just use a ethernet to wifi bridge. ~$20, and no "sudo-ing".

hackinistrator · 20 Dec 2020, 21:09

i also hate rpi and other types of toy computers .
if the board is meant for the industry or professionals - they dont use those toy computers also.
i read duet 3 documentation and it seems it can run in stand alone mode ,connected via Ethernet port .
so its like duet 2 ethernet i guess.
i dont think the rpi is doing any movement calculaions or anything related . rpi is used for UI and plug-ins only.