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Delta effector constant tilt

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Smart effector for delta printers
effector tilt
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  • undefined
    Veti
    last edited by 15 Jan 2021, 20:48

    you will need to do a delta calibration in any case. even if you are not running duet.

    see
    https://marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/G033.html

    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Jan 2021, 21:07 Reply Quote 0
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      PuddingBaer91 @Veti
      last edited by 15 Jan 2021, 21:07

      @Veti i know but even not powered on and not calibrated printer must be not tilted. How should it work when fan duct touches on one side the heatbed? Photos will follow

      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Jan 2021, 23:22 Reply Quote 0
      • undefined
        PuddingBaer91 @Phaedrux
        last edited by 15 Jan 2021, 21:16

        @Phaedrux done

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • undefined
          Nxt-1 @PuddingBaer91
          last edited by 15 Jan 2021, 23:12

          @PuddingBaer91 Just to make sure, is your printer itself level with respect to Earth? If that's not the case the effector might still be perfectly parallel to the bed, just not to Earth 🙂

          Duet3D and delta printer enthousiast. Buildlog
          Looking for Duet3D configuration support, check out Nxt-3D

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          • undefined
            garyd9 @PuddingBaer91
            last edited by 15 Jan 2021, 23:22

            @Veti said in Delta effector constant tilt:

            you will need to do a delta calibration in any case. even if you are not running duet.

            @PuddingBaer91 said in Delta effector constant tilt:

            @Veti i know but even not powered on and not calibrated printer must be not tilted. How should it work when fan duct touches on one side the heatbed? Photos will follow

            You need to calibrate so that the printer "knows" where the endstops are. Take the blower off and calibrate it.

            My best GUESS (and it's only a guess) is that you have one endstop slightly higher or lower than the others. If that is the case, and the printer is assuming that all the endstops are at exactly the same height, it could result in tilt of the effector.

            Once the printer firmware compensates for the end stops (again, assuming your firmware can do that), then it should level out.

            "I'm not saying that you are wrong - I'm just trying to fit it into my real world simulated experience."

            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Jan 2021, 23:33 Reply Quote 0
            • undefined
              PuddingBaer91 @garyd9
              last edited by 15 Jan 2021, 23:33

              @garyd9 okay but i can't imagine how calibrate can change the tilt. With my hands i can't push the effector to be not tilted. The effector keeps it plane. It's not necessary at which height the carriages are the effector plane (tilt) is fixed... May i try to calibrate tomorrow but can't imagine it helps...

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              • undefined
                alankilian
                last edited by 16 Jan 2021, 00:34

                @garyd9 said in Delta effector constant tilt:

                My best GUESS (and it's only a guess) is that you have one endstop slightly higher or lower than the others. If that is the case, and the printer is assuming that all the endstops are at exactly the same height, it could result in tilt of the effector.

                No matter how you move the axis on a Delta printer, you CANNOT tilt the effector.

                So it's for sure something wrong in the geometry of the build that's causing this tilt.

                SeemeCNC Rostock Max V3 converted to V3.2 with a Duet2 Ethernet Firmware 3.2 and SE300

                undefined 1 Reply Last reply 16 Jan 2021, 02:45 Reply Quote 0
                • undefined
                  garyd9 @alankilian
                  last edited by garyd9 16 Jan 2021, 02:45

                  @alankilian said in Delta effector constant tilt:

                  No matter how you move the axis on a Delta printer, you CANNOT tilt the effector.

                  I'd love to argue with you about that (considering that my primary printer is a delta and over the years I've managed to see more than my fair share of problems with it,) but it won't help the OP. (Though, to be completely honest, I did go through a month when everything was so screwed up on my printer that I thought I was a poster boy for "what can go wrong" or "what not to do.)

                  Looking at the pictures posted (the last one in particular), it almost appears that the hot block is mostly level with the bed, but that the fang cooling thing isn't quite straight. (That might just be an optical illusion, however.)

                  Are you able to take a picture of a entire printer to give us an idea of the frame construction?

                  "I'm not saying that you are wrong - I'm just trying to fit it into my real world simulated experience."

                  undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 16 Jan 2021, 08:53 Reply Quote 0
                  • undefined
                    PuddingBaer91 @garyd9
                    last edited by 16 Jan 2021, 08:53

                    @garyd9 thats it. Many many thanks for your help. Great idea to look at the heater block level. Mine is level:
                    PXL_20210116_083751038.jpg
                    So i looked to the part cooling fan and i noticed it is not really flush with the fan on this side where it touches the heatbed.
                    Never ever thingiverse parts.. the duct is mounted in a very bad way (only one screw at one side)
                    When i lift the duct by hand the gap seems to be level.
                    Now i will calibrate. Hope it works without problems. Thank you very much :):)

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                    • undefined
                      Bluemalu
                      last edited by 16 Jan 2021, 09:15

                      Couple of silly questions from a SpiderBot owner.

                      (1) If you remove and rotate the effector 120 degrees does the tilt move?
                      (2) In your arms have you got the magnets polarised ( all the Norths at either the effector or the axis - NB might not be an issue for this effector as the arms don't share the same spheres like the SpiderBot.
                      (3) You've checked the horizontal plane, are your guides perpendicular (90 degrees to the chosen plane (normally the bed - beware it may move slightly if heated) - Engineers square is useful in this respect.
                      (4) I see the measurements are written on your arms, just check the inside of them for debris as I suspect they are cupped and small amounts of debris can be picked up from the bearing surface.
                      (5) I use a squirt of dry PTFE spray on my bearings, if you haven't got any dry spray - summer dry bike chain lube isn't too bad.

                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 16 Jan 2021, 09:41 Reply Quote 0
                      • undefined
                        PuddingBaer91 @Bluemalu
                        last edited by 16 Jan 2021, 09:41

                        @Bluemalu thank you for your tips but the problem is solved. The problem was the duct. It is only mounted at one side so the not mounted side sagged

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • undefined
                          alankilian @garyd9
                          last edited by 16 Jan 2021, 16:15

                          @garyd9 said in Delta effector constant tilt:

                          I'd love to argue with you about that

                          I agree that various geometrical things can go wrong that can make the effector have a tile, but I propose that there is no movement along the actuated axis that can cause the tilt to change.

                          Here's a paper that describes linear delta kinematics and you will notice there is no "Angle of the effector platform" anywhere in the kinematics.

                          https://reprap.org/mediawiki/images/b/b5/Rostock_Delta_Kinematics_3.pdf

                          If you have experience where the effector tilt changed when moving axis (when the geometry is correct of course) I'm interested in learning more.

                          Deltas are sure a fun beast to tame.

                          SeemeCNC Rostock Max V3 converted to V3.2 with a Duet2 Ethernet Firmware 3.2 and SE300

                          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 16 Jan 2021, 17:02 Reply Quote 0
                          • undefined
                            dc42 administrators @alankilian
                            last edited by 16 Jan 2021, 17:02

                            @alankilian said in Delta effector constant tilt:

                            I agree that various geometrical things can go wrong that can make the effector have a tile, but I propose that there is no movement along the actuated axis that can cause the tilt to change.

                            Correct. if the geometry is correct, the only thing that can cause the effector to tilt is if the machine as whole is tilting. But a fan duct making contact with the bed would likely cause one of the rods to become slightly disconnected, causing a tilt.

                            Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                            Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                            http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                            • undefined
                              PuddingBaer91
                              last edited by 16 Jan 2021, 19:19

                              Now i did the first print after calibrating. (I am using klipper firmware) And it worked very well. Only bad thing is the fan duct. This tusk cooler thing is sooo bad like you have no part cooling. Now i will design my own duct.

                              Thank you guys 😉

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                              • undefined
                                Veti
                                last edited by 16 Jan 2021, 19:33

                                try this. it should fit

                                https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:780379

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