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Ringing on prints

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved
Tuning and tweaking
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  • undefined
    RAM
    last edited by 6 Feb 2021, 19:44

    Hi guys wondering if someone could give me any ideas as to what could be causing this strange pattern that is happening when I print.

    20210206_183400.jpg

    I thought it was because my z axis lead screws were unsupported at the top but I have since added bearing supports to the top and it hasn't made any difference.
    I have calibrated the extruder and X Y axis steps and it hasn't made a difference.

    My printer is a Hypercube evolution with X & Y MGN rails that are smooth to move. I have also checked that the belts are running true without rubbing on the idler pulleys.

    I have also tried printing in PLA and PETG to see if it was the filament and did a vase mode print too which came put like this.

    16126405933261913576264050254781.jpg

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    • undefined
      Phaedrux Moderator
      last edited by Phaedrux 2 Jun 2021, 20:58 6 Feb 2021, 20:58

      That's not really ringing/ghosting. It's more z banding.

      Have you PID tuned your heaters?

      Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 6 Feb 2021, 23:03 Reply Quote 0
      • undefined
        RAM @Phaedrux
        last edited by 6 Feb 2021, 23:03

        @Phaedrux yes I did both the bed and hotend. Just can't work out why it is in a perfect pattern after about the 1st inch.

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        • undefined
          Dad003
          last edited by 7 Feb 2021, 00:57

          since that pattern happen always the same distance it probably your Z axis bending i had same problem on my 3d printer

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          • undefined
            o_lampe
            last edited by o_lampe 2 Jul 2021, 09:13 7 Feb 2021, 09:11

            @RAM can you give me the link to the pacman ghost you've printed in vase mode, please?

            The banding reminds my of my Prusa i3, before I replaced the crappy linear bearings with IGUS drylin bearings.

            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 8 Feb 2021, 18:15 Reply Quote 0
            • undefined
              RAM @o_lampe
              last edited by RAM 2 Aug 2021, 18:25 8 Feb 2021, 18:15

              @o_lampe https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:557527
              There is a few different ones on that site. All I did was printed it in vase mode for a test.

              The bearings were really smooth as I tested them when I 1st built it and it probably has done less than 100 hours of printing. But on another print I did that was bigger the banding is a lot more pronounced like it is increasing with the size of whatever is printed.

              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 9 Feb 2021, 07:40 Reply Quote 1
              • undefined
                o_lampe @RAM
                last edited by 9 Feb 2021, 07:40

                @RAM said in Ringing on prints:

                But on another print I did that was bigger the banding is a lot more pronounced like it is increasing with the size of whatever is printed.

                An overheated print, like a small single wall part, printed without part-fan would sink in. But in your case it is the opposite.
                Still the PID tuning of the hotend is in question.
                After the tuning, did you store the new hotend-parameters with M500 and also read them with M501 in config.g?
                Can you look at the hotend temp while printing and tell us what the biggest temperature swing is? (A screenshot of DWC will work too)

                undefined 1 Reply Last reply 11 Feb 2021, 03:24 Reply Quote 0
                • undefined
                  ZipZap
                  last edited by 9 Feb 2021, 08:37

                  Could it be, that the Bed runs in BANG-BANG-Mode instead of PWM?
                  If yes, i recommend changing that by using a SSR.

                  /Julien

                  Most important guide -> Triffid Hunter's Calibration Guide
                  HyperCube EVO (derivate) in 250x250x300 - enclosed for ABS - Duet2WiFi - custom watercooling

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                  • undefined
                    RAM @o_lampe
                    last edited by 11 Feb 2021, 03:24

                    @o_lampe said in Ringing on prints:

                    @RAM said in Ringing on prints:

                    But on another print I did that was bigger the banding is a lot more pronounced like it is increasing with the size of whatever is printed.

                    An overheated print, like a small single wall part, printed without part-fan would sink in. But in your case it is the opposite.
                    Still the PID tuning of the hotend is in question.
                    After the tuning, did you store the new hotend-parameters with M500 and also read them with M501 in config.g?
                    Can you look at the hotend temp while printing and tell us what the biggest temperature swing is? (A screenshot of DWC will work too)

                    Yep definitely used the M500 after doing the PID tune. I will run another print and do a screenshot of the DWC.

                    I don't have a SSR on the heated bed as to be honest I wasn't sure how to set one up or wire it in. So I would assume that it is running in Bang Bang mode if running it in PWM requires it to have a SSR

                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 11 Feb 2021, 04:27 Reply Quote 0
                    • undefined
                      Phaedrux Moderator @RAM
                      last edited by 11 Feb 2021, 04:27

                      @RAM said in Ringing on prints:

                      So I would assume that it is running in Bang Bang mode if running it in PWM requires it to have a SSR

                      No, if you have gone through a PID tuning and saved the values, it will be running in PID/PWM mode. With or without an SSR.

                      What kind of heated bed is it? Normally an SSR is used if the bed heater is AC powered. The relay lets you control the flow of power to the bed on the AC side by sending a control signal on the DC side from the control board. This would be a AC-DC SSR. But there are also DC-DC SSR, which could be used to control a separate DC power supply that is solely used for the bed. That way a high current doesn't have to flow through the Duet itself. It just sends the control signal.

                      Bang-bang means it's turned on full power until it reaches temp and then turns on and off to try and keep that temp. This is why it can lead to some Z banding artifacts because the control isn't very smooth. PWM control with a PID algorithm allows for much finer control and smoother temps.

                      Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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                      • undefined
                        dc42 administrators
                        last edited by 11 Feb 2021, 07:24

                        While printing, are the hot end and bed temperatures flat in the temperature graph displayed by DWC, or are there is oscillations?

                        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 12 Feb 2021, 04:57 Reply Quote 0
                        • undefined
                          hackinistrator
                          last edited by 11 Feb 2021, 17:24

                          print 2 cylinders (like you did in your images) while one is twice in diameter .
                          compare the pitch distance on both cylinders .
                          if its the same - you have problem with your leadscrews , probably one of them bent .

                          if the pitch is different for the larger cylinder then you have temp / extruder issue .

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                          • undefined
                            RAM @dc42
                            last edited by 12 Feb 2021, 04:57

                            @Phaedrux @dc42 said in Ringing on prints:

                            While printing, are the hot end and bed temperatures flat in the temperature graph displayed by DWC, or are there is oscillations?

                            My heated bed is a 24v version that runs directly from the Duet 2 wifi board and when looking at the DWC as it is heating up on the graph it climbs up to the commanded temperature has a very slight deviation at the end where it overshoots by a few degrees then levels out nice and flat and both the hotend and bed stay flat whilst printing.

                            I will do 2 cylinders to see what is happening as suggested later.

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                            • undefined
                              RAM
                              last edited by RAM 13 Feb 2021, 09:36

                              This is how they look and to me they look exactly the same.
                              20210213_092303.jpg

                              The small cylinder is 20mm which when measured using digital calipers measured 19.85 - 19.77 when being rotated and the 40mm cylinder measured 39.59 - 39.66 so they are very similar in measured dimensions with the variations. I have done all the axis calibration and the extruder calibration before this started to happen. But does this mean I need to redo the calibrations again ? Or could this be something else that is throwing the prints out ?

                              One thing I did notice when I was running this print is that it does seem to pause at the end of each layer for a moment unlike my Sidewinder X1 which is almost completely seamless with movements as it is printing.

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                              • undefined
                                hackinistrator
                                last edited by 13 Feb 2021, 11:25

                                i think your slicing settings are way off .
                                what slicer are you using ?

                                undefined 1 Reply Last reply 13 Feb 2021, 17:46 Reply Quote 0
                                • undefined
                                  RAM @hackinistrator
                                  last edited by 13 Feb 2021, 17:46

                                  @hackinistrator said in Ringing on prints:

                                  i think your slicing settings are way off .
                                  what slicer are you using ?

                                  Simplify3D.

                                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 13 Feb 2021, 18:44 Reply Quote 0
                                  • undefined
                                    pkos
                                    last edited by 13 Feb 2021, 18:44

                                    I remember having similar quality issues on my hevo back in the day.
                                    I can't remember what exactly fixed the problem, but first thing I did was to check my belt tension and replaced my belts (I used those white reinforced belts, which was a big nono).

                                    Then I made sure they were tight, but not so tight you can't really push them out and more importantly - they have to be equal length (down to the tooth) and equal tension.

                                    Then I made sure prints were square (using a calibration slat) and finally, I made sure the extruder was calibrated and also the filament itself (things like extrusion multiplier, pressure advance, destring).

                                    And then, the printer started printing amazingly well 😉

                                    Maybe one of these hints will help you if you haven't done them yet.

                                    Just in case, here are the tools I used:

                                    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3306430
                                    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3993559

                                    Voron 2.4 (Duet 3 6HC + 3HC standalone), Voron SW (Duet 3 mini 5+ standalone), Voron Trident (Duet 3 mini 5+ standalone), Voron 0.1

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                                    • undefined
                                      hackinistrator @RAM
                                      last edited by 13 Feb 2021, 18:44

                                      @RAM
                                      Can you share your factory file please

                                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 13 Feb 2021, 19:29 Reply Quote 0
                                      • undefined
                                        RAM @hackinistrator
                                        last edited by RAM 13 Feb 2021, 19:29

                                        @hackinistrator here is the S3D printer profile I have.
                                        S3D Hypercube Profile

                                        @pkos thanks for the suggestions. I cant work out what it is. I have checked the belt tensions and I am not using them reinforced white belts with metal strands as I had read that they give problems.

                                        I have even gone back over the mounting points to make sure that nothing had come loose and that the idler pulleys were all freely spinning to the point I even printed new idler pulley mounts and changed them over.

                                        only thing I haven't done yet on the calibration things that you mentioned is the pressure advance tuning and the calibration slat.

                                        I will try the calibration Slat but I am still trying to get my head around the pressure advance tuning thing before I even attempt it.

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                                        • undefined
                                          pkos
                                          last edited by 13 Feb 2021, 19:53

                                          Right, then first make sure you do the slat - that makes sure you are printing square.

                                          Then, do extruder calibration, extrusion calibration and only once you have that - then attempt PA 🙂 If you have a direct drive, PA won't help much.

                                          Voron 2.4 (Duet 3 6HC + 3HC standalone), Voron SW (Duet 3 mini 5+ standalone), Voron Trident (Duet 3 mini 5+ standalone), Voron 0.1

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