Anybody using a Duet board with a Klipper SBC?

Veti · 12 Mar 2021, 09:22

@zapta
be aware that the voron is meant for abs printing.
it might be missing a bit of part cooling for pla.

hackinistrator · 12 Mar 2021, 11:29

i'm far from being klipper expert , i looked at it and the advantages are not my cup of tea .
main advantages:

high step rates , can print insanely fast .
can connect several boards together , even if they are not the same type .
can "revive" your old 8bit board and make it modern .

recently there are tons of videos on youtube of people printing at insanely fast speeds like 500-800mm/s with klipper .
i don't know what this all about . the printed parts look like sh*t , layer adhesion is poor , so whats the point ?
honestly , i print at 30-40mm/s most of the time , with pla i can go with 60mm/s also . above that , and layer adhesion starts to be an issue .

Luke'sLaboratory · 12 Mar 2021, 14:48

@hackinistrator

You've hit alot of the mainstream appeal of it, but have missed 3 of my personal big hitters for highend machines

iterative solver - no segmentation, no shortcuts
smoothed lookahead - instead of "jerk" or instantaneous change, it does an exceptional job of cornering based on the angle difference between multiple incoming moves.
input shaping. I'm aware that RRF has this in its roadmap

As for the speedboat challenge (fast prints) its something started by Annex engineering as a competition to see who can have the fastest benchy. its open-ended and just for fun, so people are just letting it fly.

Here's one of the best example videos by the people who started it. https://youtu.be/pSbYUxf2qaU

As for your print speeds, nobody is forcing anyone to go faster. I print based on the max flowrate of the particular printer's hotend and nozzle, with some exceptions if that printer has under-spec cooling. Don't really have layer adhesion issues at any speed, but that's probably down to the minutia of temp/speed/hotend/nozzle combos, as that's a primary volumetric bound

zapta · 12 Mar 2021, 17:26

@Luke-sLaboratory said in Anybody using a Duet board with a Klipper SBC?:

3 of my personal big hitters for highend machines

Do these improve significantly the print quality?

Luke'sLaboratory · 3 Dec 2021, 18:07

@zapta

helps for really small stuff, but this is probably the least impactful compared to the other two.
Yes. Absolutely. Klipper's motion control is best-in-class. smoothed lookahead makes a huge difference, especially when going fast&furious.
Yessir! Again, input shaping makes it so you can take your previously fine hardware at slower accels and crank them up for faster prints! Here's a 400x400 bedslinger (admittedly unfinished) doing 7k accel - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QePf8ESv3j3wUwLrDP3FBE8x0FJYt_Bv/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1reVza_Q8OEFEL1H66AcMh-YYIYFRVZDZ/view?usp=sharing
The top piece is post-tuning, the bottom is pre-tuning.
The awful lines on the lower peice is because one of my dampers wasn't installed correctly, causing it to hard bounce off the table. I fixed it halfway thru the initial test.

I'll have some side-by-side comparisons between RRF/Klipper on the same hardware+platform hopefully soon for discussion.

gaweyo · 12 Mar 2021, 18:33

@zapta, I'm sloooooowly printing V0 parts and souring the various bits and bobs. And yes, its Nero3D's fault, all of it. Tempted to switch to switchwire, but I'll try to stay with the V0 to stand a chance of finishing buying the parts any time soon.

zapta · 12 Mar 2021, 18:50

@Luke-sLaboratory looking forward for the comparison. Klipper has much more computation power than the Duet boards (or any other board) and it seems to put it to a good use.

Also, when using a Duet board with Klipper, is there an option for a user friendly touch LCD? (PanelDue or another).

@gaweyo, I wrote off the Switchwire because it's a bed slinger. For some subjective reason I stay away from that configuration.

Luke'sLaboratory · 12 Mar 2021, 18:52

@zapta
Yep

Run a HDMI touchscreen panel off the pi. install Klipperscreen and it will turn into a great interface.

Luke

zapta · 12 Mar 2021, 18:56

Thanks Luke, one more question if you don't mind, I am using the Duet2 Wifi stall detection for my CoreXY x/y homing. Will this still work with Klipper?

As a side note: I wonder what kind of support Duet3 provide for customers that use their boards with Klipper rather than RRF. I guess that kind of support will come from the Klipper side.

Luke'sLaboratory · 12 Mar 2021, 19:01

@zapta

Not sure. Haven't implemented it on the D2. Check out the klipper discord and other for more info.

Not sure on the other q

gaweyo · 3 Dec 2021, 19:58

@zapta said in Anybody using a Duet board with a Klipper SBC?:

Also, when using a Duet board with Klipper, is there an option for a user friendly touch LCD? (PanelDue or another).

I think we've seen Nero3D use PanelDue on stream, but can't say for sure it was with klipper but I do believe it is supported. However I'm partial to PITFT50 and CTP40 screens for the Pi - both were around $30 but have gone up a bit.

(Currently using OctoDash, pending the move to klipper but PITFT50 and CTP40 work great, and can VNC to the same interface, supports thumbnails. Love it, hoping klipper can match it)

Also yes, I'm hoping to settle for converting ender 3 to corexz instead of dreaming about building a switchwire. Then again, who knows, maybe I'll fall in a got of gold..

PaulHew · 12 Mar 2021, 19:24

I WAS running my RailCore with Duet2 ETH+Duex5 with Klipper firmware on a SBC. (Ethernet port on Duet2 was flakey)

Most of it is pretty easy to configure, Issue I had default power setting for the heated bed is 1, so my heated mat has come partially away from the plate.
Been struggling for a while with Klipper, quality was lacking, even though I had gone through all of tuning etc, my parts looked poor compared to running with RRF.

I found the implementation of the BLTouch hit and miss with klipper/Duet

The nail in the coffin for me is when I needed to be able to do a 4 point probe which allows for aligning the X rails on the RailCore. Minimum probe points in Klipper is 9.
I asked is the bed_mesh routine could be changed to allow for a 4 point and was told it was a new feature, ask in Klipper discord. etc etc
In a nutshell was told to jog on.

Have now come back to RRF.

So now I have just bought a Duet3 Mini and a toolboard which I will use to upgrade the RailCore and then use the Duet2 and Duex on a Beta printer I am building.

The Voron V0 and 2.4 300 will stay running SKR's and Klipper.
With Klipper you no longer have to run Octoprint, some people have worked hard and there is A really nice console using Moonraker backend with MainSail or other front ends.

The RailCore is not a cheap printer to build and it deserves to have Duet boards fitted.
That is why the CroXY and Annex builds specify Duet boards.

For clarification, this is my opinion and experience, YMMV.

Paul.

Luke'sLaboratory · 12 Mar 2021, 20:10

@PaulHew

Interesting - not sure what issues there were with your heated bed. Haven't had any weirdness like that.

as for the aligning of the x axises, not sure what you're going for, but there are several routines for adjustment, what were you looking to do? is there a baked-in RRF gcode for it?

as for annex specifying duet boards, recent BOM's switched from SKR -> Fystek S6 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oXqvtk06rsHcD06igabW3sL7RkIG_uLstGmKU9D9Gv8/edit#gid=1410625863

CROXY specifies Duet Boards.

I hope to have definitive comparisons to help out with these discussions and raise the bar for everyone!

zapta · 13 Mar 2021, 17:09

Here is a good Klipper introduction video by the Voron guy. One of his Klipper based printers is based on a Duet2 and has a functioning Panel Due (Around 15:45 time mark).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNHta6zljoM

gaweyo · 14 Mar 2021, 16:21

@zapta said in Anybody using a Duet board with a Klipper SBC?:

Here is a good Klipper introduction video by the Voron guy. One of his Klipper based printers is based on a Duet2 and has a functioning Panel Due (Around 15:45 time mark).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNHta6zljoM

you can add [?|&]t=945 to the url to jump to the timecode in seconds or "use the copy video url at current time" option form the context menu in youtube https://youtu.be/iNHta6zljoM?t=945

jrockland · 14 Mar 2021, 18:00

@Luke-sLaboratory any chance you can send me your config file ? Duet 3 mini should be close enought to duet 6hc.. Im still trying to find the stepper address for the 6hc board.

Argo · 14 Mar 2021, 19:19

Just wanted to add that besides input shaper RRF has more on it's road map:

https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/20602/reprapfirmware-road-map-q1-2021?_=1615749405350

"RRF 3.4: the focus of this will be the motion system. We will be looking at input shaping, S-curve acceleration, better cornering algorithms, and other mechanisms to improve print quality. "

zapta · 14 Mar 2021, 20:47

@Argo said in Anybody using a Duet board with a Klipper SBC?:

RRF 3.4: the focus of this will be the motion system

Hopefully that release will significantly benefit my Duet2 Wifi, no extenders, no SBC printer. The recent releases seem to be 'for other people'.

BTW, looking more into the Klipper, its two tiers architecture of an SBC tied to heterogenous 'dumb' I/O slaves seems to be simpler, more open, and more promising than the Duet's 3 tier approach of a SBC, a proprietary smart controller and proprietary slave controllers (extenders, tool boards, etc). I like it more and more, but don't have yet real life experience with it.

minim · 15 Mar 2021, 23:43

I tested klipper on duet WiFi and deux5 this weekend. I run true bed leveling with it quite fine and the input shaper does magic. The UI is not great compared to duet but I might stay with it because of the magic the input shaper does. Wish I could add a photo here easy and I’ll show the huge difference.

Managed to crash my Z axis during setup so I got some Z banding now but I can’t blame klipper for a user error

gaweyo · 16 Mar 2021, 03:50

@minim said in Anybody using a Duet board with a Klipper SBC?:

Wish I could add a photo here easy and I’ll show the huge difference.

copy n' paste and drag n' drop should work for pictures, there is also the upload image icon on the toolbar (second last)