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RRF 3.4 input shaping preview available

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Beta Firmware
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  • undefined
    dc42 administrators @sebkritikel
    last edited by 19 Jul 2021, 06:49

    @sebkritikel you are quite right. Input shaping is applied only to individual move segments. Applying IS to curves that start or end at a sharp corner would require analysis and modification of several segments that make up the curve.

    In future we may be able to apply IS to whole G2 and G3 moves. Then you could use Arc Welder to preprocess the file.

    Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
    Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
    http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
    • undefined
      GeneRisi
      last edited by 19 Jul 2021, 16:24

      @dc42 Will you always post a message if you have updated the firmware? Thanks!

      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 19 Jul 2021, 17:12 Reply Quote 0
      • undefined
        dc42 administrators @GeneRisi
        last edited by 19 Jul 2021, 17:12

        @generisi we always post a message when we do a new official release (including a beta or RC release). If you have a github account then you can get additional notifications. To set them up, go to https://github.com/Duet3D/RepRapFirmware and click on Watch.

        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 20 Jul 2021, 00:08 Reply Quote 0
        • undefined
          bot @sebkritikel
          last edited by bot 19 Jul 2021, 19:12

          Very interesting post, thank you for sharing.

          This is encouraging news, to me. It really shows that it works but that it's not magic.

          IMO, you can tune your printer to achieve better results than shown. The amount that the input shaping is reducing the ringing on the flat sections is tremendous. You had an absolutely enormous amount of ringing showing through (but I grant that the lighting may be showing it worse).

          If, before applying input shaping, you tune your jerk/accel/feedrate settings to be much more conservative, I bet you will either see some effect from input shaping on those smaller moves or those smaller moves will at least be less noticeably problematic.

          *not actually a robot

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • undefined
            GeneRisi @dc42
            last edited by 20 Jul 2021, 00:08

            @dc42 Thanks! (and done!)

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • undefined
              Dudek23
              last edited by 20 Jul 2021, 06:57

              After a week of printing, I can confirm that the latest beta is very stable. Everything works just as good for me as in version 3.3. As for the input shaper, I am able to achieve good results with zvdd, but only on one axis at time, so I join the request for the possibility to use of different frequencies per axis.

              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 20 Jul 2021, 10:59 Reply Quote 1
              • undefined
                dc42 administrators
                last edited by 20 Jul 2021, 08:20

                @dudek23 thanks for the feedback!

                Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                • undefined
                  CR3D @Dudek23
                  last edited by 20 Jul 2021, 10:59

                  @dudek23 yes different frequencies and different shapers for the different axis would be a nice option 🙂

                  Christian from CR-3D
                  Homepage:
                  www.cr-3d.de

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                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 20 Jul 2021, 11:44 Reply Quote 2
                  • undefined
                    dc42 administrators @CR3D
                    last edited by 20 Jul 2021, 11:44

                    @cr3d an issue with using different shapers for different axes is that the axes will no longer move exactly in sync during acceleration and deceleration. For example, corners printed at 45deg to X and Y may become less square. However, I can make different shapers per axis an option to try, at least on Duet 3.

                    Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                    Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                    http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                    undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 20 Jul 2021, 11:51 Reply Quote 1
                    • undefined
                      PCR @dc42
                      last edited by 20 Jul 2021, 11:51

                      @dc42 how does klipper handle this? only curious how its done? are they syncing axis then?

                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 20 Jul 2021, 11:52 Reply Quote 0
                      • undefined
                        dc42 administrators @PCR
                        last edited by 20 Jul 2021, 11:52

                        @pcr said in RRF 3.4 input shaping preview available:

                        @dc42 how does klipper handle this? only curious how its done? are they syncing axis then?

                        Good question! The Klipper docs mention "smoothing" but don't elaborate. They also suggest use of low acceleration.

                        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                        undefined 2 Replies Last reply 20 Jul 2021, 12:02 Reply Quote 0
                        • undefined
                          PCR @dc42
                          last edited by 20 Jul 2021, 12:02

                          @dc42 https://github.com/KevinOConnor/klipper/blob/master/klippy/chelper/kin_shaper.c

                          static double
                          shaper_xy_calc_position(struct stepper_kinematics *sk, struct move *m
                          , double move_time)
                          {
                          struct input_shaper *is = container_of(sk, struct input_shaper, sk);
                          if (!is->sx.num_pulses && !is->sy.num_pulses)
                          return is->orig_sk->calc_position_cb(is->orig_sk, m, move_time);
                          is->m.start_pos = move_get_coord(m, move_time);
                          if (is->sx.num_pulses)
                          is->m.start_pos.x = calc_position(m, 'x', move_time, &is->sx);
                          if (is->sy.num_pulses)
                          is->m.start_pos.y = calc_position(m, 'y', move_time, &is->sy);
                          return is->orig_sk->calc_position_cb(is->orig_sk, &is->m, DUMMY_T);
                          }

                          i am no coder but looks like the calculating it

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • undefined
                            PCR @dc42
                            last edited by 20 Jul 2021, 12:06

                            @dc42 ah i think klipper can only use one shaper for x and y but diffrent freq. 😉

                            So i think different freq. per axis should be possible?

                            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 20 Jul 2021, 12:43 Reply Quote 0
                            • undefined
                              dc42 administrators @PCR
                              last edited by dc42 20 Jul 2021, 12:43

                              @pcr if you use different frequencies per axis, the axes will move out of step. But the amount of out-of-step movement may be small enough to be acceptable, especially if the accelerations are low. It makes no difference whether the same or different input shapers are used per axis.

                              Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                              Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                              http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 20 Jul 2021, 17:53 Reply Quote 0
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                                CR3D @dc42
                                last edited by CR3D 20 Jul 2021, 17:53

                                @dc42

                                Sorry dc42 I have to contradict you. Without doing X and Y separately, it won't work properly and properly. Out of interest, I looked at clippers last week and took a measurement. As a result you get the following graphs and also the suggestions for the frequency and the shaper. and these are always different for X and Y.

                                Input-Shaper_Y.jpeg Input-Shaper_X.jpeg

                                In addition, you will also receive a recommendation for the respective max.accelerations per axis ...

                                Christian from CR-3D
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                                www.cr-3d.de

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                                undefined 1 Reply Last reply 20 Jul 2021, 21:37 Reply Quote 0
                                • undefined
                                  dc42 administrators @CR3D
                                  last edited by 20 Jul 2021, 21:37

                                  @cr3d said in RRF 3.4 input shaping preview available:

                                  Sorry dc42 I have to contradict you.

                                  Which bit of my post are you contradicting?

                                  Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                  Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                  http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                                  • undefined
                                    skrotz @dc42
                                    last edited by 20 Jul 2021, 23:18

                                    @dc42 I was able to do a print and captured some stepper errors with debug output. Included is my config.g, the gcode I was printing, and the output logs. Hopefully this helps diagnose the issues some of us are having with RRF 3.4. This was with PA disabled , and input shaping enabled via M593 P"ei2" F41 S0.10

                                    config.g
                                    printOutput.txt
                                    CFFFP_xyzCalibration_cube_205.gcode

                                    undefined 2 Replies Last reply 21 Jul 2021, 07:42 Reply Quote 0
                                    • undefined
                                      dc42 administrators @skrotz
                                      last edited by 21 Jul 2021, 07:42

                                      @skrotz thanks for that, it shows clearly some step errors on the extruder drive and that PA was not involved. I will investigate.

                                      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • undefined
                                        CR3D @dc42
                                        last edited by 21 Jul 2021, 18:11

                                        @dc42

                                        I ment this part here:

                                        "if you use different frequencies per axis, the axes will move out of step. But the amount of out-of-step movement may be small enough to be acceptable, especially if the accelerations are low. It makes no difference whether the same or different input shapers are used per axis."

                                        I think it is absolutely necessery and with klipper it also works...

                                        Just for information 🙂 We want the same perfect shaper here in RRF 🙂

                                        Christian from CR-3D
                                        Homepage:
                                        www.cr-3d.de

                                        Facebook:
                                        https://www.facebook.com/cr3d.official

                                        Our Discord Server
                                        https://discord.gg/SxRaPNuRdA

                                        Thingiverse Profile:
                                        https://www.thingiverse.com/cr-3d_official/about

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                                        • undefined
                                          psychotik2k3
                                          last edited by 22 Jul 2021, 10:17

                                          i really think that at least different frequencies should be possible because i really don't see how the frequency should be the same on X and Y as the weight in movement is not the same at all, and thus the moment.

                                          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 22 Jul 2021, 15:58 Reply Quote 0
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