Gcode documentation change

theKM

@t3p3tony said in Gcode documentation change:

@theKM what script are you suggesting to insert?

It's not a script that is yet written, but it's a way to inject functionality into the page that people could optionally apply. For example, it could inject itself into the menu an option to have the page render like it used to (literally all the content on the one page), but the script could parse the links and fetch the content to inject into the page... along with any other fanciness that the script could do (previous script that I wrote cross-linked all the gcode references so that all gcodes were links people could navigate with).

theKM

@droftarts said in Gcode documentation change:

@thekm Thinking about it, I guess there are two options:

a page that populates with all the individual pages (no idea how the ToC will render)

a page that keeps the list of Gcodes in the ToC, and shows the content in the main frame

Is either of these something you could create a bit of code that we could test out? Or just a tiny bit of code that does something that we can test to see if the idea works at all?

Ian

...I'll look at poking the new page. The way the previous mega-page navigated with the cross-linking worked pretty nice for me, I'll see about making it run optionally (I think it'd be best if it didn't do anything until the user requested it to its dance, so inject a menu option for "mega page" in the top of the menu or something, that if clicked it'll transform the page).

zapta

@droftarts, looking for example, in this page, it has a link to M150. Should that link should go directly to the documentation of M150 where the various arguments are explained? This is probably the user intention in most cases they click on that link.

https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Neopixel_and_DotStar_LEDs

In addition to that, the 'isolated' mode in each each operation is documented in an isolated page doesn't provide IMO as good user experience as the previous page . Kind of looking at the Mona Lisa through a keyhole. You can't search for topics that cross commands, related command are not visible (e.g. G90, G91).

I understand the need/desire to improve, and I understand that sometimes our muscle memory takes some time to adapt to changes, but this one feels as a regression functionality. This is not the end of the world, and we will 'survive' it but you may want to reconsider.

droftarts

@zapta Hardcoded links to the old page are throughout the documentation and forum. Providing a heading in the new page to act as a target for those links, with a longer summary and link to the full individual gcode entry underneath, is the best we can do at the moment. When/if we get around to updating all the links on Dozuki (not going to happen on the forum), they'll point at the individual page.

I understand everyone's reservations, I feel them too. We're looking at ways to improve searchability and visibility; it's early days. Unfortunately, we can't go back to the single page.

I would say that often when I do a ctrl-F search on the Gcode page, it's for something simple like 'stepper' or 'acceleration', and I barely look at the main frame; the highlights in the Table of Contents are enough to find what I'm looking for. If I can have some solid examples of searches that don't work on the new page, I can update the short descriptions, even if it's just to add 'Related: G91' to G90.

And don't forget the Gcode by function page! https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/GCodes_index_by_function

Ian

zapta

@droftarts said in Gcode documentation change:

we can't go back to the single page.

What was the problem with the old page, too large to load in a browser? What size was it? I guess that if it's technically 100% impossible (is it?) then there is not point in complaining

If I can have some solid examples of searches that don't work on the new page

Is the old page still exist somewhere so we can find examples that worked well there but not in the new model?

T3P3Tony

@droftarts said in Gcode documentation change:

To help this, here is an html document of the old page: Gcode - Duet3D.html.txt (download it and delete the .txt on the end of the file name, then it should open in your browser).

zapta

Thanks @t3p3tony. The file is less than 1M and downloaded quickly and loaded easily into my browser.

As an example, I tried a page search search for 'acceleration' and the new model didn't hit M593 and M669.

When you search the single page, you know that it will hit every mentioning of it. With the new summaries page, it will hit only if that page was manually curated properly, so it reduces the confident in the search.

(If there is a hard technical constraint that prohibits the single page than I understand, that's psychics and we just need to live with it, but if not, please reconsider).

oozeBot

We just talked about this in our standup and agreed that we'd rather it all be on a single page for many of the same reasons already listed. It's an invaluable resource..!

bot

For those worried about losing the searchability of a single page: have you tried using the dozuki search feature?

Searching for, as an example from this thread, "acceleration," finds all the appropriate pages, and more.

What is missing from the individual G-Code page listings, in the dozuki search results, is a description of the contents of the page. Not sure why that doesn't appear, but the search function works very well to find all the g-codes that reference acceleration.

https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Search?query=acceleration

royal32

Is the old page still exist somewhere so we can find examples that worked well there but not in the new model?

You can access the last point in the page's history before it was broken up by adding ?revisionid=5349 to the url, like so:

https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode?revisionid=5349

I'll be using the locally downloaded version, but that bookmark will be useful if people need it on mobile devices etc while we figure out a good solution here.

Reviewing the initial reasoning for this change, I'm really not understanding any of them.
As far as slow loading times on either side... you've replaced a single page with all of the information on every gcode that measured 1.57mb (transferred/compressed) with a page of no information and just links that weighs 1.37mb, and every individual gcode page the user has to load weighs 1.34mb.
How does this change improve load times for either the server or the client, am I missing something? It seems to be significantly worse by my measurements. Am i fundamentally misunderstanding this?

As far as difficulty editing, If i were editing this I would prefer a monolithic document that i could Ctrl-F around in, rather than having to manage literally hundreds of individual pages. I managed a wordpress site for a few years, I would have lost my mind trying to do that. I can see that the editing window is very small, but you can Ctrl-A, paste it into something like vscode. It can fill up your whole screen, its color coded because vscode recognizes markdown, you get a minimap to help you navigate... thats how i would do it.

As far as getting lost while you scroll... i'm more concerned about getting lost in all of the different tabs i have open now with different gcodes. Yes it is a long document, but it is also very easy to search around and find what youre looking for between Ctrl-F and the index on the side.

Just my 2c.

Seth

zapta

@bot said in Gcode documentation change:

https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Search?query=acceleration

I rarely use the dozuki search because the results are kind of opaque and you need to enter each item to get an idea what is inside. Does it have a next-next mode where each click takes you to the page/location of next result?

This one provides more context but still not as functional as the one page search.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fduet3d.dozuki.com+acceleration&atb=v88-4_g&ia=web

T3P3Tony

Thanks for everyone's feedback. One of the downsides of having a solution like Dozuki is that there are some aspects that are out of our direct control. One of those was having such a large and frequently accessed page was an issue for Dozuki. I am not sure of the architecture reasons behind why it was an issue but it was, not specifically for the file size transferred (so maybe for the server resource in rendering? not sure).

There have been some good suggestions on here on how to improve this (client side aggregation, related gcodes on individual pages, having a single global ToC, for the individual gcode pages, adding keywords to help search on the summary page).

droftarts

@bot said in Gcode documentation change:

What is missing from the individual G-Code page listings, in the dozuki search results, is a description of the contents of the page. Not sure why that doesn't appear, but the search function works very well to find all the g-codes that reference acceleration.

Ah, useful! It's because no summary has been put in for the individual pages. That's something I can fix. I've added them to G0 and G1, and now they show up. I'll add more when we've decided what to include.

@royal32 said in Gcode documentation change:

I can see that the editing window is very small, but you can Ctrl-A, paste it into something like vscode. It can fill up your whole screen, its color coded because vscode recognizes markdown, you get a minimap to help you navigate... thats how i would do it.

Thanks, I had a quick look at Visual Studio Code; I have been using BBEdit (on Mac) for editing large documents. Unfortunately, Dozuki's markdown version is not standard, so it doesn't preview nicely on VSCode (or BBEdit), so there's no major improvement. VSCode looks good for other reasons, though!

@zapta said in Gcode documentation change:

As an example, I tried a page search search for 'acceleration' and the new model didn't hit M593 and M669.

Thanks, I'll look at this. Summaries could include keywords, eg for M593 it could include "DAA, acceleration, frequency, damping" etc. 'Acceleration' in M669 (Polar kinematics Maximum turntable acceleration parameter) might just be a bit too esoteric to count as a keyword. Got to draw the line somewhere... Interestingly, M669 does show up in a Dozuki search for 'acceleration'.

Ian

Dr_Ju_Ju

What Browser was this update tested on ?? because personally I normally use a VERY restricted version of Microsoft Edge, with ALL the social claptrap etc removed...

Whereas in the 'old' version I could quickly get answers for any queries e.g. M586 network, but this 'new' version is a steaming pile of shite, where all I see a brief description of what M586 supposedly controls, but there are no links to any additional info etc. and this goes for ALL the G/M codes

A Former User

This post is deleted!

droftarts

@dr_ju_ju the G/M code at the beginning of the summary line is a link to the full entry.

Ian

Dr_Ju_Ju

@droftarts not for me it isn't.....

droftarts

@dr_ju_ju see https://forum.duet3d.com/post/251387

Ian

Dr_Ju_Ju

I don't know what has changed this morning, if anything, but I now see links to individual explanation pages from the GCode dictionary page (https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_G_commands), which at least gets me started in finding the info I need, but WHY are there no return links, to the dictionary page, on each of explanation pages ????

zapta

@droftarts, here is another example, searching the main gcode page for 'StealthChop' or 'Stealth' or 'Chop' brings nothing.

https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode

Searching that page for M569 doesn't help either since it has 8 entries which should be opened and searched individually, not to mention finding other commands that may mention 'stealthchop'.

I miss the old times.