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    First cut success - with questions!

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    • fcwiltundefined
      fcwilt @Nightowl
      last edited by

      @nightowl999 said in First cut success - with questions!:

      I am. I've jogged the cutter to the stock zero and set that as work zero.

      What does that mean? How is it done?

      In the 3D printer world the slicer program knows the limits of the printer.

      If you tried to slice an object that was too big the program would issue a warning.

      If you tried to slice an object that was not too big but you positioned it in the slicers "virtual printer" so that some part of it was outside the printer limits the program would also issue a warning.

      If you successfully sliced an object but forced the printer X=0 Y=0 point to some other location (using a G92 command - something you normally would never do) then you could encounter a problem if that resulted in some part of the object being outside the printer limits.

      Does you program work anything like that?

      Frederick

      Printers: a E3D MS/TC setup and a RatRig Hybrid. Using Duet 3 hardware running 3.4.6

      jay_s_ukundefined Nightowlundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • jay_s_ukundefined
        jay_s_uk @fcwilt
        last edited by

        @fcwilt CNC uses physical endstops to know where the machine home is, however you don't have to place the stock you want to cut at 0,0. you can set it anywhere on the spoilboard (bed in the 3d printer world) and then tell RRF where that stock is by setting its 0,0 point as a workplace offset.

        Owns various duet boards and is the main wiki maintainer for the Teamgloomy LPC/STM32 port of RRF. Assume I'm running whatever the latest beta/stable build is

        fcwiltundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • fcwiltundefined
          fcwilt @jay_s_uk
          last edited by

          @jay_s_uk said in First cut success - with questions!:

          @fcwilt CNC uses physical endstops to know where the machine home is, however you don't have to place the stock you want to cut at 0,0. you can set it anywhere on the spoilboard (bed in the 3d printer world) and then tell RRF where that stock is by setting its 0,0 point as a workplace offset.

          I don't use workplace offsets but I was under the impression they worked as you have used them.

          I will need to do some testing.

          Frederick

          Printers: a E3D MS/TC setup and a RatRig Hybrid. Using Duet 3 hardware running 3.4.6

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • Nightowlundefined
            Nightowl @fcwilt
            last edited by

            @fcwilt
            In programs like Vectric Cut2D, I would design a project to be cut out of a piece of material, usually wood ('real' wood, plywood or MDF). Some people would use the limits of the stock, e.g. use a 6x4x4" block of wood to cut a hole in the middle and call it a box, but I prefer to cut the box out of a larger block, so square edges and a flat top of the block aren't too important, although a flat base is.

            The Z zero is (for me) on the top of the block and X and Y zero are to the front left of the block. Others may do things differently, e.g. using the middle of the block as X and Y zero, or the baseboard as their Z zero.

            In my case, the tip of the cutter is set on the top of the material at the X and Y start point and click Go, then the machine cuts and leaves a nice shiny box! The Vectric software I use has a size limit (24" x 24") so I can't cut anything larger than that, unless I tile it - but I'm only just starting out and that strategy is a bit advanced for me.

            Few things are more dangerous than taking the advice of someone who thinks he knows what he's doing.
            I'm still on my learning curve, so take everything I say with caution!

            RatRig 1075, Duet3 MB6HC, Sorotec SFM 1000 PV-ER milling motor, Hobbyist

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • Nightowlundefined
              Nightowl
              last edited by Nightowl

              I'm not getting this, but I'm tired and increasingly frustrated, so I'm going to leave it for now, but here are a couple of photos to show what my issues are (or at least the issues I'm struggling to understand).

              This is the maximum work area, although there's quite a bit of dead space at the rear (as the spindle is mounted on the front of the X gantry) and about 20mm inside the Y rails...

              IMG_3955.jpeg

              This is the workpiece at the front, with a tape measure to show how big the project area is (10x10") from the work zero (where the spindle is)...

              IMG_3970.jpeg

              But I'm still getting the "Error: G0/G1: target position outside machine limits", which doesn't make sense.

              I'll write a smaller project in Cut2D and see if that makes a difference.

              Time for a beer with my dinner, I think!

              Few things are more dangerous than taking the advice of someone who thinks he knows what he's doing.
              I'm still on my learning curve, so take everything I say with caution!

              RatRig 1075, Duet3 MB6HC, Sorotec SFM 1000 PV-ER milling motor, Hobbyist

              fcwiltundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • fcwiltundefined
                fcwilt @Nightowl
                last edited by

                @nightowl999

                We've got company right now and will for several hours yet.

                It it weren't for that I would run some tests here and determine what is going on.

                Sorry I cannot help you this minute.

                Frederick

                Printers: a E3D MS/TC setup and a RatRig Hybrid. Using Duet 3 hardware running 3.4.6

                Nightowlundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • Nightowlundefined
                  Nightowl @fcwilt
                  last edited by

                  That's very kind @fcwilt, but please don't let this spoil your evening.

                  I've given up for the evening, anyway 👍 😴

                  Few things are more dangerous than taking the advice of someone who thinks he knows what he's doing.
                  I'm still on my learning curve, so take everything I say with caution!

                  RatRig 1075, Duet3 MB6HC, Sorotec SFM 1000 PV-ER milling motor, Hobbyist

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • JoergS5undefined
                    JoergS5 @o_lampe
                    last edited by JoergS5

                    @Nightowl999 said in First cut success - with questions!:

                    userPosition is already higher than (max-5)? Would it try to move +5 anyways and hit the upper limit or stop automatically at max?

                    getting the "Error: G0/G1: target position outside machine limits", which

                    The firmware is strict for laser/CNC mode to stop with the error if the target is not reachable. This is different to 3D printer mode, where it prints the adjusted range.*)

                    If your X and Y ranges are ok, then maybe the program wants to lift Z more than the M208 upper limit of 100. To analyse, the line which produces the error should be identified and the current position from M114 Count value and M92 setting.

                    *) for someone who is interested in the code: GCodes.cpp

                    	case LimitPositionResult::adjusted:
                    	case LimitPositionResult::adjustedAndIntermediateUnreachable:
                    		if (machineType != MachineType::fff)
                    		{
                    			err = "G0/G1: target position outside machine limits";		// it's a laser or CNC so this is a definite error
                    			return true;
                    		}
                    		ToolOffsetInverseTransform(moveState.coords, moveState.currentUserPosition);	// make sure the limits are reflected in the user position
                    		if (lp == LimitPositionResult::adjusted)
                    		{
                    			break;														// we can reach the intermediate positions, so nothing more to do
                    		}
                    		// no break
                    

                    adjusted stops for laser/CNC, but is accepted for 3D printers.

                    Nightowlundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Nightowlundefined
                      Nightowl @JoergS5
                      last edited by

                      I wouldn't know the first thing about code, @joergs5, but I'll take a look at the Z height.

                      If it's relevant, the Z axis configuration sets the physical drive for Z as 'backwards'...

                      M569 P0.3 S0 ; physical drive 0.3 goes backwards - Z axis

                      ...with the Z minima/maxima set at 0/100.

                      I'm not sure I fully understand what you're suggesting, but I'd be happy to run the code, if you could tell me exactly how!

                      Vielen dank.

                      Few things are more dangerous than taking the advice of someone who thinks he knows what he's doing.
                      I'm still on my learning curve, so take everything I say with caution!

                      RatRig 1075, Duet3 MB6HC, Sorotec SFM 1000 PV-ER milling motor, Hobbyist

                      JoergS5undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • JoergS5undefined
                        JoergS5 @Nightowl
                        last edited by JoergS5

                        @nightowl999 the first thing would be to find the line which produces the first error message and then proceeding the lines before and then

                        • run M114 and notify the Count values (the first being X position, second y, third Z)
                        • then tell me the count value and M92 and the G0/G1 command which fails. I'll tell you how to calculate and hope to give you an answer for the error
                        • if you want to verify homing, please home and after homing, run M114 and notify count values as well

                        To avoid ruining your workpieces, there is a simulation mode which should be possible to use. I didn't use it before, so just an idea. M37, but I don't know it, but maybe valuable to find the error line.

                        Nightowlundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • Nightowlundefined
                          Nightowl @JoergS5
                          last edited by

                          @JoergS5 Thank you.

                          Before homing, M114 reports the following:
                          X:0.000 Y:0.000 Z:0.000 E:0.000 Count 0 0 0 Machine 0.000 0.000 0.000 Bed comp 0.000

                          Just a moment, and I'll home it...

                          Few things are more dangerous than taking the advice of someone who thinks he knows what he's doing.
                          I'm still on my learning curve, so take everything I say with caution!

                          RatRig 1075, Duet3 MB6HC, Sorotec SFM 1000 PV-ER milling motor, Hobbyist

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • Nightowlundefined
                            Nightowl @JoergS5
                            last edited by

                            @JoergS5
                            After homing, it's:
                            X:547.000 Y:784.000 Z:97.000 E:0.000 Count 218800 313600 38800 Machine 547.000 784.000 97.000 Bed comp 0.000

                            Few things are more dangerous than taking the advice of someone who thinks he knows what he's doing.
                            I'm still on my learning curve, so take everything I say with caution!

                            RatRig 1075, Duet3 MB6HC, Sorotec SFM 1000 PV-ER milling motor, Hobbyist

                            JoergS5undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • JoergS5undefined
                              JoergS5 @Nightowl
                              last edited by

                              @nightowl999 said in First cut success - with questions!:

                              @JoergS5
                              After homing, it's:
                              X:547.000 Y:784.000 Z:97.000 E:0.000 Count 218800 313600 38800 Machine 547.000 784.000 97.000 Bed comp 0.000

                              The 218800 is a value from your M92 setting and the homing position. What is your M92 setting, please?

                              Nightowlundefined JoergS5undefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • Nightowlundefined
                                Nightowl @JoergS5
                                last edited by

                                @joergs5 All axes are set at 400 steps per mm

                                Few things are more dangerous than taking the advice of someone who thinks he knows what he's doing.
                                I'm still on my learning curve, so take everything I say with caution!

                                RatRig 1075, Duet3 MB6HC, Sorotec SFM 1000 PV-ER milling motor, Hobbyist

                                JoergS5undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • JoergS5undefined
                                  JoergS5 @JoergS5
                                  last edited by JoergS5

                                  @joergs5 ok, I think it's 218800/547 = 400.

                                  This means, for every mm your router moves, the Count value for X will be incremented by 400. So you can always see where the firmware thinks that your router is.

                                  Now before you start the error G0/G1 move, you can make a M114 and know where the router is. (of course the G1 before will be this position also in most cases, but to be sure...).

                                  NB the values being all 0 at the beginning is, because firmware doesn't know where your steppers are at the beginning. This is what homing is meant for: telling the firmware where the stepper's positions are. The only reason why the firmware Count values and true stepper position may vary is if there are lost steps (M122 hiccups hight numbers will tell you).

                                  Nightowlundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • JoergS5undefined
                                    JoergS5 @Nightowl
                                    last edited by JoergS5

                                    @nightowl999

                                    X:547.000 Y:784.000 Z:97.000 E:0.000 Count 218800 313600 38800

                                    547 * 400 = 218800
                                    784 * 400 = 313600
                                    97 * 400 = 38800

                                    or other round, from the Count value divide by your M92 (400) and you'll get the current mm position.

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                                    • Nightowlundefined
                                      Nightowl @JoergS5
                                      last edited by Nightowl

                                      @JoergS5
                                      Should I move the axes to the Work XYZ first, set Work XYZ, then run M114?

                                      Few things are more dangerous than taking the advice of someone who thinks he knows what he's doing.
                                      I'm still on my learning curve, so take everything I say with caution!

                                      RatRig 1075, Duet3 MB6HC, Sorotec SFM 1000 PV-ER milling motor, Hobbyist

                                      JoergS5undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • JoergS5undefined
                                        JoergS5 @Nightowl
                                        last edited by

                                        @nightowl999 said in First cut success - with questions!:

                                        @JoergS5
                                        Should I move the axes to the Work XYZ first, then run M114?

                                        My proposal would be to move to the last position which is ok. Then make a M114 and notify the Count values, then verify that the next command throws an error.

                                        Nightowlundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • Nightowlundefined
                                          Nightowl @JoergS5
                                          last edited by

                                          @joergs5 Sorry, I edited the question as you answered...

                                          I've now placed the spindle at the Work XYZ (without the cutter installed!) so should I set Work XYZ then run M114?

                                          Few things are more dangerous than taking the advice of someone who thinks he knows what he's doing.
                                          I'm still on my learning curve, so take everything I say with caution!

                                          RatRig 1075, Duet3 MB6HC, Sorotec SFM 1000 PV-ER milling motor, Hobbyist

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • Nightowlundefined
                                            Nightowl
                                            last edited by Nightowl

                                            M114 before setting Work XYZ...
                                            X:37.000 Y:204.000 Z:85.000 E:0.000 Count 14800 81600 34000 Machine 37.000 204.000 85.000 Bed comp 0.000

                                            Some more information:
                                            Since installing the spoil board, my Z height has reduced to 75mm, but I haven't changed it in the config.g file yet.

                                            M114 after setting Work XYZ...
                                            X:0.000 Y:0.000 Z:0.000 E:0.000 Count 14800 81600 34000 Machine 37.000 204.000 85.000 Bed comp 0.000

                                            Few things are more dangerous than taking the advice of someone who thinks he knows what he's doing.
                                            I'm still on my learning curve, so take everything I say with caution!

                                            RatRig 1075, Duet3 MB6HC, Sorotec SFM 1000 PV-ER milling motor, Hobbyist

                                            JoergS5undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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