Issues with pressure advance since RRF 3.4

Argo

So if you enter your PA value manually during a print - how do your corners then look?

R4ffers

@argo I'll try a print tonight, I'm on call this week.

R4ffers

@argo Hi, so started the print off issued M572 D0 to report current PA of 0.095. M572 D0 S0 to clear PA then issued M572 D0 S0.085. Issued M572 D0 to report current PA of 0.085. Here is the result.

Corners look miles better. I did notice the infill not quite reaching the internal perimeter in places.
Also note the walls on the square top layer, PA is working when manually input during print and as expected with such a high value for direct extruder.

Hope this helps.

Argo

@r4ffers

I’ll do the same test when I’m back from my business trip on Friday.

Though PA is reporting the correct value you set it to 0 and again to the value it was before and it works?

R4ffers

@argo I set it to zero 1st just to make sure it reported the change. In my config I had it set at 0.095 but I manually set it to 0.085. I'm fairly sure I used to have it set at 0.055, if I get chance tonight I'll try it at that and see what happens. I've looked through everything and can't find anything that would disable PA .

It'll be interesting to see if your PA works manually.

CCS86

@r4ffers said in Issues with pressure advance since RRF 3.4:

@argo I set it to zero 1st just to make sure it reported the change. In my config I had it set at 0.095 but I manually set it to 0.085. I'm fairly sure I used to have it set at 0.055, if I get chance tonight I'll try it at that and see what happens. I've looked through everything and can't find anything that would disable PA .

It seems like a better test might be to start the print, verify the supposed PA setting via console, let it print for some amount of time. Then, re-command the same PA value and see if the print changes.

R4ffers

@ccs86 I've proved that already.

Argo

@r4ffers

I also did the test you described but the corners are still bulging at PA 0.052 for PLA.

Wulfsta

Seeing this thread, I really wish I had spent time making that band-aid test print use a bit less plastic...

Argo

@R4ffers

I’ve looked at your print again and spotted holes in your infill lines. That’s usually due too much pressure advance. You are using your LGX lite in a direct drive setup? Then for PLA a value around 0.05 and 0.06 is usually the best value. For ABS it’s even lower.
I’m curious how your infill looks like. I’m also getting nice(er) corners with a much too high PA value (you are at 0.09?) but then also get holes in perimeters / solid fill and infill lines don’t connect anymore - what is to be expected with too high PA.

@Wulfsta
Didn’t know you are registered here. Would have mentioned that the test print was from you.

MartinNYHC

After synchronizing with @Argo what already has been tested and what not I wanted to rule out that the problem is caused by the 1LC toolboard.

Top: E stepper comnnected to a Duet3 3HC
Bottom: E stepper connected to 1LC

So at least we are now sure that it is not related to the 1LC.

My setup:

Same printer as @Argo
Duet3 6HC with 1LC and SBC running RRF 3.4.3
LGX extruder with Rapido HF hotend.

config.g

	; General preferences
M111 S0                     							; Debugging off
G21                         							; Work in millimetres
G90                         							; Send absolute coordinates...
M83                         							; ...but relative extruder moves
M669 K1                     							; Select CoreXY mode
M564 S1 H1                  							; Forbid axis movements when not homed
G4 S1   												; wait for expansion boards to start

; Drives

; --- Z Drive map ---
;     _______
;    | 3 | 4 |
;    | ----- |
;    | 2 | 5 |
;     -------
;      front
;

; Drive directions
M569 P0 S1 												; A (X)
M569 P1 S1 												; B (Y)
M569 P2 S1 												; Z1
M569 P3 S0 												; Z2
M569 P4 S1 												; Z3
M569 P5 S0 												; Z4
M569 P121.0 S1 											; E

; Motor mapping and steps per mm
M584 X1 Y0 Z2:3:4:5 E121.0
M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1         						; Use 1/16 microstepping with interpolation everywhere
M92 X80 Y80 Z400 E414.92683

; Drive currents
M906 X1500 Y1500 Z1500 E650     						; XYZ and E current
M906 I30                        						; Idle current percentage
M84 S300                        						; Idle timeout

; Accelerations and speed
;M566 X600 Y600 Z60 E8000								; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M566 X400 Y400 Z60 E8000								; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X30000 Y30000 Z3000 E15000 						; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X10000 Y10000 Z250 E1800     						; Set maximum accelerations (mm/s^2) 
M204 P4000 T5000

; Accelerometer
;M955 P121.0 I05										; set address and orientation of tool board

; PA, DAA
;M572 D0 S0.05
M572 D0 S0.035
M593 P"zvdd" F35.2

; Axis travel limits
M208 X5 Y-5 Z0 S1               						; Set axis minima
M208 X350 Y350 Z375 S0          						; Set axis maxima

; Endstops
M574 X2 S1 P"^io1.in"          							; Xmax endstop
M574 Y2 S1 P"^io2.in"          							; Ymax endstop
;M574 Z1 S1 P"^io3.in"                                   ; Z endstop switch
M574 Z1 P"nil" 										; No endstop

; Z probes
;M558 K0 P8 C"121.io0.in" I1 H2.5 F250 T18000 A31 S0.0035 R0.2  ; set Z probe type to switch and the dive height + speeds
;G31 K0 P500 X0 Y25 Z8.74
;M558 K1 P8 C"io3.in" I1 H2 F240 T18000 A31 S0.0035 R0.2 ; set Z probe type to switch and the dive height + speeds
;G31 K1 P500 X0 Y0 Z0			                          ; set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height -0.8

; Filament Sensor
;M591 D0 P7 C"121.io2.in" S1

; Bed leveling
M671 X-53:-53:400:400 Y-5:420:420:-5 S20      			; Define Z belts locations (Front_Left, Back_Left, Back_Right, Front_Right)
;M557 X20:335 Y20:330 P5:5
M557 X120:235 Y120:230 P2:2

; Bed heater
M308 S0 P"temp0" Y"thermistor" T100000 B3950             ; configure sensor 0 as thermistor
M950 H0 C"out1" T0                                       ; create bed heater output
M307 H0 B0 S1.00                                         ; disable bang-bang mode for the bed heater and set PWM limit
M140 H0                                                  ; map heated bed to heater 0
M143 H0 S120                                             ; set temperature limit for heater

; Hotend heater
;M308 S1 P"121.temp1" Y"pt1000"
M308 S1 P"121.temp1" A"Heater 1" Y"thermistor" T100000 B4725 C7.06e-8
M950 H1 C"121.out0" T1
;M950 H1 C"out2" T1
M307 H1 B0 S1       		                             ; disable bang-bang mode for heater  and set PWM limit
M143 H1 S300                                             ; Set temperature limit for heater

; Chamber Thermistor
M308 S2 P"temp1" A"Chamber" Y"thermistor" T100000 B3950  ; configure sensor 2 as thermistor

; MCU sensors
M308 S3 Y"mcu-temp" A"MCU"
M308 S4 Y"drivers" A"Drivers"
M912 P0 S-13					                       	 ; MCU temp calibration

; Fans
;M950 F0 C"121.out1" Q10000                              ; part cooling fan # old Sunon
M950 F0 C"121.out1"			                             ; part cooling fan # new Gsdtime
M106 P0 C"Bed" S0 H-1									 ; part cooling fan
M950 F1 C"121.out2"                                      ; hotend fan
M106 P1 C"Hotend" L0.70 X0.70 H1 T70 S0.70				 ; hotend fan
M950 F2 C"out7" Q10                                      ; air filter fan
M106 P2 C"Filter" S0 H-1 B0.2							 ; air filter fan
M950 F3 C"out4" Q24000                                   ; electronics bay left side
M106 P3 S0.75 H-1 B1 C"Bay"	                             ; electronics bay left side 
;M950 F4 C"1.out3" Q24000                                 ; electronics bay right side
;M106 P4 S0.75 H-1 B1 C"Bay Right"                           ; electronics bay right side
M950 F5 C"out5"	                                    	 ; sbc fan
M106 P5 S0.2 H-1 C"SBC"                         		 ; sbc fan
M950 F6 C"out6"							 			   	 ; chamber light
M106 P6 S1 H-1 C"Light"									 ; chamber light

; Tools
M563 P0 S"Hotend" D0 H1 F0                               ; define tool 0
;G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z-2.75
G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0
G10 P0 R0 S0                                             ; set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C

; Enable debugging via USB
;M111 S1 P0												; Platform
;M111 S1 P1												; Network
;M111 S1 P2												; Webserver
;M111 S1 P3												; GCodes
;M111 S1 P4												; Move
;M111 S1 P5												; Heat
;M111 S1 P6												; DAA
;M111 S1 P7												; Roland
;M111 S1 P8												; Scanner
;M111 S1 P9												; PrintMonitor
;M111 S1 P10											; Storage
;M111 S1 P11											; PortControl
;M111 S1 P12											; DuetExpansion
;M111 S1 P13											; FilamentSensor
;M111 S1 P14 											; Wifi
;M111 S1 P15											; Display
;M111 S1 P16											; LinuxInterface
;M111 S1 P17											; CAN

; Neopixel
M150 X3 Q3000000           ; set LED type to NeoPixel and set SPI frequency to 3MHz
M150 W255 P255 Y255 S3 F0

; Misc
M575 P1 S1 B115200	                					; enable support for PanelDue
M501                                					; load config-override.g
M302 P0													; disallow cold extrudes
T0                                  					; select tool 0

; Auto Z
M98 P"/macros/autoz/edit_me.g" ; load your settings for autoz with klicky probe
M400
M98 P"/macros/autoz/scripts/autoz_globals.g" ; load autoz framework for klicky probe
M400

; ERCF
;M98 P"0:/macros/sys/ercf/lib/init.g"

Gcode file

Argo

@dc42

Looks like I’m not alone with the issue anymore. Any news of an possible fix? And if possible, can we somehow assist in collecting more data (debug firmware with more logging?) for you to fix the issue?

gloomyandy

@MartinNYHC That's a very useful test. If you are interested in running more tests, then trying the same print with an older version of the firmware (probably pre input shaping so 3.3) might provide some interesting input. It would also be useful to run the same test (on 3.4.3) with input shaping disabled.

It also looks to me as if you could use a higher value for the pressure advance setting on that print (with the input shaping setting you have), did you try that (I see you have a higher setting commented out)?

MartinNYHC

@gloomyandy I already tried lots of different settings within the last few months but that doesn't change anything. The same applies to the RRF version - same results as @Argo starting with 3.4.

gloomyandy

@MartinNYHC It would really help to see the following prints alongside each other. I don't think we really have good examples at the moment. Ideally using the same gcode....

A print using RRF 3.3 (ideally both with and without the toolboard)
A print using RRF 3.4 but with input shaping disabled (again with and without a toolboard)
A print using RRF 3.4 with input shaping enabled (I think we already have these, but it would be good to confirm them with the same settings and gcode).
Hopefully all test prints using the same filament etc.

At the moment we have a lot of examples but I don't think we have a consistent set using exactly the same hardware and gcode. I don't think we have any hard evidence that things changed from 3.3 to 3.4.

The current situation (as I understand it) is....
Argo saw differences going from 3.3 to 3.4, but he also switched from a directly connected extruder to using a toolboard. When he went back to 3.3 (still using a toolboard) the problem he is seeing seemed to also show in 3.3.

Your test posted above seems to indicate that you are seeing a problem with 3.4 and that the problem is the same both with and without a toolboard (however both prints are using input shaping, so that may have some impact on this, most people seem to think that PA needs to be changed when input shaping is in use).

I realise that this is a lot of work, but I think you are in a really good position to test this. I've been trying to reproduce the issue, but have not been able to do so, my understanding is that DC42 has also not been able to reproduce the problems. If there is a difference between 3.3 and 3.4 then having a definitive example would really help.

Argo

@gloomyandy

What I also did change was the hotend when I installed the tool board and installed RRF 3.4.
It’s a Rapido hotend. The same one @MartinNYHC uses. I don’t know how the hotend can be the cause but I could switch back to the Mosquito as my bedslinger with RRF 3.4 also has an Mosquito and no issues.

MartinNYHC

@Argo I also had this issue before I switched from a Mosquito Magnum to Rapido

Argo

@MartinNYHC

Ok… then I have absolutely no clue anymore.

MartinNYHC

@gloomyandy My extruder is clogged Will do the test prints tomorrow.

R4ffers

@gloomyandy I'm also using rapido hotend now, was using a dragon SF. I've just changed from SBC to standalone which hasn't altered the results.