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    Pressure Advance + Slic3r PE retractions et al ... Funky results

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    • SputnikOC3dundefined
      SputnikOC3d
      last edited by

      Great tips - all around - the nozz width - line width is a great one to try - makes perfect sense too. Thank you very much ... Its like an Indy Car - sum of a a lot of little adjustments all over.

      .5 nozz and Im at .55 width. I'll bring it down to .5 too.

      Just ran that 4 cone spire torture test again ... [ wish Slic3r let ya alter temps at layer heights ] and this time ...

      1 mm retraction / 55 mms
      10 mms re-retraction
      .08 Pressure advance [ direct drive ] Bondtech Prusa MK3
      1.0 extrusion multiplier
      1.75 filament

      240c for the majority of the print but when the strings started to show - dropped it to 235 - and then again at the tips at 230C.

      I still got strings - bit not nearly as bad and they started much farther up the spires. Also did get some branch like blobs at the very tip tops - waaay better tho than the last one - pictured above .

      Im pretty pleased atm with it. I think I might consider upping the retract another 5 mms and making sure my Jerk/Accel for E are up high enough to use it ... Thin it makes any sense to put re-retract down to 5 mms ?

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      • jackatom74undefined
        jackatom74
        last edited by

        Curious what brand PETG you are using. I have used both hatchbox and ESUN, PETG wise, the Hatchbox (gold, white and orange) prints much cleaner for me. I have also switches from a brass nozzle to the copper tinned nozzle and had noticeable improvments.

        SputnikOC3dundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • deckingmanundefined
          deckingman
          last edited by

          The branch like features are caused by an initial small blob of filament at the edge of the print. Then the next time the print head passes over this initial blob, if there is a blob of filament on the end of the nozzle, it gets "wiped off" and deposited on top of the first one. So the branch continues to grow with each pas of the nozzle. In my experience, a bit more retraction usually fixes it.

          As someone else pointed out, there s PET-G and there is PET-G. Some brands are more prone to stringy behaviour than others.

          Ian
          https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
          https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

          SputnikOC3dundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • Phaedruxundefined
            Phaedrux Moderator
            last edited by

            I should have mentioned that I use E3D SpoolWorks EDGE PETG mostly. It's a little on the pricey side, but the results have always been terrific.

            Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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            • jackatom74undefined
              jackatom74
              last edited by

              When my PETG quality made a major leap it was when I realized that my first layer being to close to the bed was causing the blobs I was seeing in my 50th layer. Once I gave it a little more room I notices my nozzle was not rolling boogers in the wide open spaces at higher altitudes.

              SputnikOC3dundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • SputnikOC3dundefined
                SputnikOC3d @jackatom74
                last edited by

                @jackatom74 said in Pressure Advance + Slic3r PE retractions et al ... Funky results:

                When my PETG quality made a major leap it was when I realized that my first layer being to close to the bed was causing the blobs I was seeing in my 50th layer. Once I gave it a little more room I notices my nozzle was not rolling boogers in the wide open spaces at higher altitudes.

                Good info ... i feel like my 1st layers are high off the bed if anything atm ... i seem to have to run a wide [ 8 loops ] skirt to get Z dialed in w/ babystepping - and I too found petg on buildtak especially - likes to start out a bit higher than i'd ever run PLA.

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                • SputnikOC3dundefined
                  SputnikOC3d
                  last edited by SputnikOC3d

                  I'd like to add an oddity happened last night on test print ... I altered the Slic3r PE profile settings to the numbers discussed above [ except for de-retraction was run at 15 mms vs. 10mms ] - but I had forgotten to mod the Press Adv in config.g prior to running the print start. But ... NP - sent a nifty command via the gcode console in DWS to change the Press Adv to .08 .... All cool ... except ...

                  The oddity was - my Y axis motor on non printing rapids, and faster printing moves - started whining - well making a noise Ive never heard before - ever. I tried increasing the speeds to see if that went away - nope. I tried slowing things down too - and that did change it and it went away. However; when you use the DWC interface for speed modifications, I suspect that also alters - ALL stepper moves, so I put speed back to 100% and left it till the top of the tips

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                  • SputnikOC3dundefined
                    SputnikOC3d @jackatom74
                    last edited by

                    @jackatom74

                    Im using Matterhackers [ they are just down the street from me ] 1.75 Aqua PetG Pro

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                    • SputnikOC3dundefined
                      SputnikOC3d @deckingman
                      last edited by

                      @deckingman said in Pressure Advance + Slic3r PE retractions et al ... Funky results:

                      The branch like features are caused by an initial small blob of filament at the edge of the print. Then the next time the print head passes over this initial blob, if there is a blob of filament on the end of the nozzle, it gets "wiped off" and deposited on top of the first one. So the branch continues to grow with each pas of the nozzle. In my experience, a bit more retraction usually fixes it.

                      As someone else pointed out, there s PET-G and there is PET-G. Some brands are more prone to stringy behaviour than others.

                      Thanks for that ... Matterhackers PetG Pro - Aqua 1.75

                      Do you feel as if that blob branch issue would be best solved by MORE retraction or higher Press Adv ?

                      Going by what fellow Duet user DHackney of sublime layers advises 1.0mm retraction [ should be plenty ]. Obviously not a hard fast rule but ... too hot perhaps / temps ?

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                      • SputnikOC3dundefined
                        SputnikOC3d
                        last edited by

                        Another question I had about these print tests ... Should I have the expectation to get this 100% blob free - strings arent - to me the end of the world - surely Id prefer to never see one, but - is it reasonable expectation with a Duet wifi / E3d v6 - good bed and accurate frame/machine to hit this VERY near perfect ?

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                        • Phaedruxundefined
                          Phaedrux Moderator
                          last edited by Phaedrux

                          It would help to know a bit more about your extruder and printer, but I don't see why string free prints couldn't be attainable, unless of course it's just the nature of the filament.

                          Try increasing the retraction by 0.05 mm during a print every few mm of height until the strings stop or you get an uncomfortablly long retraction, which for a Titan V6 all metal combo could be up to 2mm.

                          You can live adjust the temperature during the print as well. 5c at a time through the range of whatever the manufacturer recommends. Some like it hot, others not.

                          For pressure advance I look to see how much of a blob the end of a solid infill line looks like and increase it slowly until the end of the line seems to match the width of the line.

                          It would also help to do a test with pressure advance to see if it's actually helping or hindering.

                          alt text

                          I dunno if it's perfect but it's pretty decent. Any strings are tiny wisps.

                          Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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                          • SputnikOC3dundefined
                            SputnikOC3d @Phaedrux
                            last edited by

                            @phaedrux said in Pressure Advance + Slic3r PE retractions et al ... Funky results:

                            It would help to know a bit more about your extruder and printer, but I don't see why string free prints couldn't be attainable, unless of course it's just the nature of the filament.

                            Try increasing the retraction by 0.05 mm during a print every few mm of height until the strings stop or you get an uncomfortablly long retraction, which for a Titan V6 all metal combo could be up to 2mm.

                            You can live adjust the temperature during the print as well. 5c at a time through the range of whatever the manufacturer recommends. Some like it hot, others not.

                            For pressure advance I look to see how much of a blob the end of a solid infill line looks like and increase it slowly until the end of the line seems to match the width of the line.

                            It would also help to do a test with pressure advance to see if it's actually helping or hindering.

                            I dunno if it's perfect but it's pretty decent. Any strings are tiny wisps.

                            Thats a sexy benchy sir ... still yet to print one of those - only because everybody does. Maybe its time ...

                            Im not using firmware retraction - im slicing all those settings into the gcode, except Press Adv. Can I still send gcodes from the DWC for retraction settings that will override the sliced values ? Im not sure I understand how that works ...

                            On your solid infill line end test ... so Im clear [ and many thanks for all your help here btw ] - youre talking about like a single layer or more of 100% infil like rectilinear - where it melts over the interior perimeter line ?

                            P.S. - you remember your print speeds for that benchy ? 😉

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                            • Phaedruxundefined
                              Phaedrux Moderator
                              last edited by

                              To use firmware retraction with Slic3r PE it's as easy as checking the box in printer settings.
                              It's a little trickier in Cura. There is a plugin that will let you toggle it. https://community.ultimaker.com/topic/22743-printer-settings-plugin/

                              Once you have it enabled you can then use the G-code console to modify the values on the fly. Once you find the values you like you can put them in config.g as defaults or add them to the start code areas in Slic3r for a specific filament.

                              I think that Benchy was 100mm/s, 0.2 layers. 400 accel, 60 jerk.

                              Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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                              • SputnikOC3dundefined
                                SputnikOC3d
                                last edited by SputnikOC3d

                                Before I get excoriated on this - I set these - knowing mostly nothing about what they should be... Duet was my first ever used printer/board. I suspect Im a good bit OFF on these settings too.

                                ;---------------------------
                                ; Drives
                                ;---------------------------
                                M569 P0 S0 ; Drive 0 goes reverse [ X Axis ] [ S0 = Rev / S1 = FWD ]
                                M569 P1 S0 ; Drive 1 goes reverse [ Y Axis ]
                                M569 P2 S0 ; Drive 2 goes reverse [ Z Axis ]
                                M569 P3 S1 ; Drive 3 goes forward [ E0 ]
                                M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1 ; Configure microstepping with interpolation
                                M92 X100.30 Y100.250 Z1600 E140.64 ; Set steps per mm
                                M566 X900 Y900 Z25 E250 ; [ Jerk Settings ] Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
                                M201 X500 Y500 Z280 E250 ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
                                M572 D0 S0.080 ; Set Pressure Advance [ need to check Jerk and Accel Settings to properly coincide here ]
                                M203 X6000 Y6000 Z280 E1200 ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
                                M906 X1600 Y1600 Z1600 E1600 I30 ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle "power saving" decrease factor as percentage [ I30=30% ]
                                M84 S10 ; Set idle timeout

                                alt text

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                                • Phaedruxundefined
                                  Phaedrux Moderator
                                  last edited by

                                  Those look like pretty good starting points to me.

                                  Do you notice stringing printing other things? Those towers are designed to be a worst case scenario afterall.

                                  Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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                                  • deckingmanundefined
                                    deckingman
                                    last edited by

                                    The other thing about using firmware retraction is that you can change it on the fly during the print.

                                    Ian
                                    https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                    https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

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                                    • SputnikOC3dundefined
                                      SputnikOC3d
                                      last edited by SputnikOC3d

                                      Im going to have to do some more testing and tweeking ... ran some non "benchy" type parts and I noticed the Press Adv is not dialed in ... Im not getting a solid line of plastic all the way to the END on solid infill. The line STARTS look pretty good , but there are defo lines od infill that have small gaps at the end.

                                      So far now Im going to

                                      • increase retraction from 1.00 to 1.25
                                      • reduce Pressure Advance from .08 back to .065 / .060
                                      • increase line width - back to .55 for my .50 nozzle

                                      Additionally I need to get a handle on why my Y axis motor is now developed a whine at speeds above 30 mms

                                      Hope to get this material dialed in - and then sort out how to change the slice method and move to FW retracton etc ... sounds mo bettah

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                                      • Phaedruxundefined
                                        Phaedrux Moderator
                                        last edited by

                                        Consider tuning retraction and speeds first without any pressure advance, and then adding some in slowly after that.

                                        I would say it really only starts to make a big difference when you start pushing speeds up around 100.

                                        There was some pressure advance specific test files as well that make it easier to dial in separately.

                                        Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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