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Core XY movement issues

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  • undefined
    JoergS5 @FxxToo
    last edited by 18 Jul 2018, 16:43

    @fxxtoo maybe your problem reappears when you change to 1/64 stepping, because this was your original setting.

    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
    • undefined
      Phaedrux Moderator
      last edited by 18 Jul 2018, 16:57

      Yes I would be interested to see if you can now recreate the problem to verify the fix.

      Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Jul 2018, 17:10 Reply Quote 0
      • undefined
        FxxToo @Phaedrux
        last edited by 18 Jul 2018, 17:10

        @phaedrux , @joergs5
        I just tried this in my config.g
        M92 X80 Y80 Z80 E420 ; Set steps per mm x80 y80 z175 z80 z85
        M350 x64 y64 Z128 ; Configure microstepping with interpolation
        ;M92 Y320 Y320 Z1400 E420 ;mod to test 64 micro stepping This resulted in the normal movement.
        changed to this:
        ;M92 X80 Y80 Z80 E420 ; Set steps per mm x80 y80 z175 z80 z85
        M350 x64 y64 Z128 ; Configure microstepping with interpolation
        M92 Y320 Y320 Z1400 E420 ;mod to test this resulted in movement on the Y while doing a G1 x100
        So the answer is , Yes I can duplicate it.
        Other than my reply earlier, I have no clue why this is happening. I just know that I can move forward now..
        RJ

        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Jul 2018, 17:32 Reply Quote 1
        • undefined
          JoergS5 @FxxToo
          last edited by JoergS5 18 Jul 2018, 17:32

          @fxxtoo you mean, when you use 1/64, the fix does not work?
          work?

          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Jul 2018, 17:46 Reply Quote 0
          • undefined
            FxxToo @JoergS5
            last edited by 18 Jul 2018, 17:46

            @joergs5 I am not sure what you are asking me.
            the first example puts the step rate at 1/16 M92 X80 Y80 followed by the M350 changing the step rate to 1/64 (letting the firmware adjust the steps per mm). This works correctly.
            The second example puts the step rate at 1/64 (M350 X64 Y64) followed by the M92 command, which gives the same thing, but spells out the steps per mm. This does not work correctly. Maybe doing it this way causes the firmware to miss a variable or miscalculate the steps due to the order it gets the settings. I am thinking of posting this question to dc42. He might have some knowledge why this happens.
            rj

            undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 18 Jul 2018, 18:06 Reply Quote 0
            • undefined
              JoergS5 @FxxToo
              last edited by JoergS5 18 Jul 2018, 18:06

              @fxxtoo thank you for explanation, this was the information I wanted.

              So the configuration tool and the two documentations are wrong in this respect. It should be wrong for cartesian printers also.

              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Jul 2018, 18:27 Reply Quote 0
              • undefined
                deckingman @FxxToo
                last edited by 18 Jul 2018, 18:22

                @fxxtoo said in Core XY movement issues:

                @joergs5 I am not sure what you are asking me.
                the first example puts the step rate at 1/16 M92 X80 Y80 followed by the M350 changing the step rate to 1/64 (letting the firmware adjust the steps per mm). This works correctly.
                The second example puts the step rate at 1/64 (M350 X64 Y64) followed by the M92 command, which gives the same thing, but spells out the steps per mm. This does not work correctly. Maybe doing it this way causes the firmware to miss a variable or miscalculate the steps due to the order it gets the settings. I am thinking of posting this question to dc42. He might have some knowledge why this happens.
                rj

                That's what's puzzling us all because it works fine for me (and everyone else). The configuration tool is correct and the documentation is correct. If it wasn't there would hundreds if not thousands (depending on how many boards have been sold) of disgruntled users and complaints.

                Ian
                https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Jul 2018, 18:33 Reply Quote 0
                • undefined
                  deckingman @JoergS5
                  last edited by 18 Jul 2018, 18:27

                  @joergs5 said in Core XY movement issues:

                  @fxxtoo thank you for explanation, this was the information I wanted.

                  So the configuration tool and the two documentations are wrong in this respect. It should be wrong for cartesian printers also.

                  No. The configuration tool is correct and so is the documentation.

                  Ian
                  https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                  https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • undefined
                    JoergS5 @deckingman
                    last edited by JoergS5 18 Jul 2018, 18:33

                    @deckingman

                    just my 2ct:
                    maybe only an effect in Corexy, because only there in CoreXYKinematics.cpp is a CartesianToMotorSteps and MotorStepsToCartesian where rounding errors could occur between int motorPos and the other floats. If you calculate with first, then second function, result will not be 0 as should be with inverted functions.

                    Thesis: In Move.cpp those functions are called for every segment, so more microsteps will sum up rounding errors faster.

                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Jul 2018, 20:18 Reply Quote 0
                    • undefined
                      deckingman @JoergS5
                      last edited by 18 Jul 2018, 20:18

                      @joergs5 Well OK but as I said in an earlier post, just for the hell of it, I tried configuring my CoreXY both ways and can't replicate the OPs problem.

                      Ian
                      https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                      https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                      undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 18 Jul 2018, 21:45 Reply Quote 0
                      • undefined
                        FxxToo @deckingman
                        last edited by 18 Jul 2018, 21:45

                        @deckingman
                        So your tried this and couldn't replicate the movement? Here is my modded config file, with some notes. Maybe I have messed something else up as well..and just waiting to bite me.
                        ; General preferences
                        M111 S0 ;DEBUGGING OFF
                        G90 ; Send absolute coordinates...
                        M83 ; ...but relative extruder moves
                        M555 P2 ; Set firmware compatibility to look like MARLIN
                        M667 S1 ; Select CoreXY mode

                        ; Network
                        M550 PRJPRINT ; Set machine name
                        ;M552 S1 ; Enable network
                        M552 S1 P192.168.1.99 ;SET IP ADDRESS
                        M553 P255.255.255.0 ;SET SUBNET MASK
                        M586 P0 S1 ; Enable HTTP
                        M586 P1 S0 ; Disable FTP
                        M586 P2 S0 ; Disable Telnet

                        ; Axis Limits
                        M208 X325 Y415 Z0 S0 ; Set axis maxima
                        M208 X0 Y0 Z-600 S1 ; Set axis minima

                        ; Drives M569: Set motor driver direction, enable polarity and step pulse timing Parameters
                        ;M584 X1 Y0 ; test for Ian Swapping the A & B connectors test
                        M569 P0 S1 ; Drive 0 goes FORWARDS Rnnn Driver enable polarity: 0 = active low, 1 = active high (default 0)
                        M569 P1 S1 ; Drive 1 goes forwards
                        M569 P2 S0 ; Drive 2 goes forwards
                        ; If I put the M350 command here and comment out the existing M350 (2 lines down)
                        M92 X80 Y80 Z80 E420 ; Set steps per mm @ 1/16 step rate
                        M350 x128 y128 Z128 ; Configure microstepping with interpolation
                        ;M92 Y320 Y320 Z1400 E420 ;mod to test 64 micro stepping <----this one will cause the movement on Y while moving x
                        ;M92 X320 Y319 z1400 E420 ; to test to see if it corrects the speed <----This one stops the Y movement while moving x
                        M566 X600 Y600 Z100 E120 ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
                        M203 X6000 Y6000 Z4000 E1200 ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min) CHANGED FROM 6000 TO 600 Z NO CHG
                        M201 X500 Y500 Z250 E250 ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
                        M906 X1500 Y1500 Z1500 E800 I40 ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
                        M84 S30 ; Set idle timeout

                        ; Endstops
                        M574 Z1 S0 ; Set active low endstops
                        M574 X1 Y1 Z2 S0
                        ;M574 X1 Y1 S3 ; Set endstops controlled by motor load detection

                        ; Z-Probe
                        ;M558 P0 H5 F120 T6000 ; Set Z probe type to switch and the dive height + speeds
                        ;G31 P600 X0 Y0 Z2.5 ; Set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height

                        ;M557 X15:327.9 Y15:391 S20 ; Define mesh grid

                        ; Heaters
                        M140 H1 ; Remap heated bed to heater 1
                        M301 H1 P-1 ; Set heater 1 to bang-bang mode
                        M305 P0 X200 ; Configure thermocouple for heater 0
                        M143 H0 S120 ; Set temperature limit for heater 0 to 120C
                        M305 P1 X201 ; Configure thermocouple for heater 1
                        M143 H1 S280 ; Set temperature limit for heater 1 to 280C

                        ; Fans
                        M106 P0 S1 I0 F500 H1 T45 ; Set fan 0 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned on
                        M106 P1 S1 I0 F500 H1 T45 ; Set fan 1 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned on
                        M106 P2 S1 I0 F500 H1 T45 ; Set fan 2 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned on

                        ; Tools
                        M563 P0 D0 H0 ; Define tool 0
                        G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0 ; Set tool 0 axis offsets
                        G10 P0 R0 S0 ; Set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C

                        ; Automatic power saving
                        M911 S10 R11 P"M913 X0 Y0 G91 M83 G1 Z3 E-5 F1000" ; Set voltage thresholds and actions to run on power loss

                        ; Custom settings are not configured

                        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 19 Jul 2018, 21:28 Reply Quote 0
                        • undefined
                          JoergS5 @deckingman
                          last edited by 19 Jul 2018, 05:37

                          @deckingman did you try the firmware version FxxToo uses? There was a bugfix in 1.21 for M350, maybe this or another change has an effect.

                          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 19 Jul 2018, 06:20 Reply Quote 0
                          • undefined
                            deckingman @JoergS5
                            last edited by 19 Jul 2018, 06:20

                            @joergs5 said in Core XY movement issues:

                            @deckingman did you try the firmware version FxxToo uses? There was a bugfix in 1.21 for M350, maybe this or another change has an effect.

                            Read my earlier post - 18th July 11:44

                            Ian
                            https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                            https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 19 Jul 2018, 10:05 Reply Quote 0
                            • undefined
                              JoergS5 @deckingman
                              last edited by 19 Jul 2018, 10:05

                              @deckingman

                              Ok, I will try to understand and compare the different firmware versions and verify whether there are errors in it. My guess is, that processing M92-M350 produces different rounding errors than M350-M92.

                              You said that a lot of people are using the code and an error would be detected. But if the rounding error is small enough for most settings, nobody will mention, but push it to mechanical deficiencies.

                              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 19 Jul 2018, 10:46 Reply Quote 0
                              • undefined
                                dc42 administrators @JoergS5
                                last edited by dc42 19 Jul 2018, 10:46

                                @joergs5 said in Core XY movement issues:

                                @deckingman

                                Ok, I will try to understand and compare the different firmware versions and verify whether there are errors in it. My guess is, that processing M92-M350 produces different rounding errors than M350-M92.

                                You said that a lot of people are using the code and an error would be detected. But if the rounding error is small enough for most settings, nobody will mention, but push it to mechanical deficiencies.

                                Any rounding errors would be far too small to have this much effect, and when using the same microstepping and steps/mm on the X and Y motors, they would affect both motors equally anyway.

                                Can you confirm that if you swap the order of the M350 and M92 commands back to your original order, and adjust the M92 values as needed, the problem returns?

                                Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 19 Jul 2018, 19:26 Reply Quote 0
                                • undefined
                                  FxxToo @dc42
                                  last edited by FxxToo 19 Jul 2018, 19:26

                                  @dc42
                                  Yes I can. I posted that result here : https://forum.duet3d.com/post/55484
                                  I had found a post that you had done about putting the M92 Xxx Yxx, with the steps set for 1/16 step rate before the M350 command. I changed that and my issue with the Y moving with the X and vice versa, Stopped. I was asked if I could replicate it. I tried and I could. I thought maybe I had something else that could effect it in my config file, so I posted it after I had changed it, leaving the original statements marked in it, obviously commented out.

                                  Firmware Name: RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet
                                  Firmware Electronics: Duet Ethernet 1.02 or later
                                  Firmware Version: 1.21 (2018-03-21)
                                  Web Interface Version: 1.21Firmware Name: RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet
                                  Firmware Electronics: Duet Ethernet 1.02 or later
                                  Firmware Version: 1.21 (2018-03-21)
                                  Web Interface Version: 1.21
                                  RJ

                                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 20 Jul 2018, 08:56 Reply Quote 0
                                  • undefined
                                    JoergS5 @dc42
                                    last edited by 19 Jul 2018, 20:11

                                    @dc42 how about enable logging M929 (or more) and printing a simple line, this should give information whether the second stepper moves unexpectedly.

                                    According to:
                                    https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Logging

                                    I believe you that the rounding errors are not applicable, but it's maybe another reason in the code.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • undefined
                                      JoergS5 @FxxToo
                                      last edited by JoergS5 19 Jul 2018, 21:28

                                      @fxxtoo said in Core XY movement issues:

                                      ; Endstops
                                      M574 Z1 S0 ; Set active low endstops
                                      M574 X1 Y1 Z2 S0

                                      I think it has nothing to do with the thread problem, but I am confused by a config setting: why are there two Z endstops, one for Z1 and one for Z2, low end and high end?
                                      (If the second is a Z-probe, I thought you need to set it as S2 instead of as Z2)

                                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 19 Jul 2018, 22:49 Reply Quote 0
                                      • undefined
                                        FxxToo @JoergS5
                                        last edited by FxxToo 19 Jul 2018, 22:49

                                        @joergs5

                                        I was going to try it with the end stop on either end the of the Z. So I had done that before my issue was discovered. I haven't gotten to those tweaks or others, like the accelerations, jerk factor and lots of others. Still learning about a lot of this. I do appreciate the input.
                                        RJ

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • undefined
                                          dc42 administrators @FxxToo
                                          last edited by 20 Jul 2018, 08:56

                                          @fxxtoo said in Core XY movement issues:

                                          @dc42
                                          Yes I can. I posted that result here : https://forum.duet3d.com/post/55484
                                          I had found a post that you had done about putting the M92 Xxx Yxx, with the steps set for 1/16 step rate before the M350 command. I changed that and my issue with the Y moving with the X and vice versa, Stopped. I was asked if I could replicate it. I tried and I could. I thought maybe I had something else that could effect it in my config file, so I posted it after I had changed it, leaving the original statements marked in it, obviously commented out.

                                          Firmware Name: RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet
                                          Firmware Electronics: Duet Ethernet 1.02 or later
                                          Firmware Version: 1.21 (2018-03-21)
                                          Web Interface Version: 1.21Firmware Name: RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet
                                          Firmware Electronics: Duet Ethernet 1.02 or later
                                          Firmware Version: 1.21 (2018-03-21)
                                          Web Interface Version: 1.21
                                          RJ

                                          Thanks. I'd like to get to the bottom of this, so please can you:

                                          1. Using your existing config.g, send M92 and check it reports the correct steps/mm. X and Y should be reported as 320 because the M350 command will have adjusted them.

                                          2. Also send M667 and verify that the axis factors reported are all 1.0.

                                          3. Change config.g to the version that gives problems. Verify that the problem still exists. Then run M92 and M667 again and check what steps/mm and axis factors are reported.

                                          4. After that, try deleting and re-typing the M92 X320... line in case it contains any non-printing characters, and see if the problem is still present.

                                          Thanks - David

                                          Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                          Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                          http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 20 Jul 2018, 17:05 Reply Quote 0
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