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    Bed Surface Recomendations - PETG, PLA, ABS

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    • DocTruckerundefined
      DocTrucker
      last edited by DocTrucker

      Looking for print recommendations based on first hand use if possible.

      I'm using dc42's IR probe for bed level checking and generally manually checking bed height before the first layer.

      I'm currently using 3DLAC / Hairspray on plain glass for PLA and that works great. I've avoided it for PETG because of stories of PETG bonding very well and pulling chunks of glass from the bed.

      I had issues with the kapton tape getting damaged or stuck to prints far to easily.

      I've PEI on one system and that has marked with little printing.

      I am having issues with my Flex3D PrintBite+ black bed. The nozzle is closer in some areas than others & it is very fussy about any contamination on the build surface. I Have tried (although will revisit for sanities sake!) stick on white targets on the PrintBite+ surface. Not sure if this is an issue with the bed surface, or the probe at the moment.

      Running 3 P3Steel with Duet 2. Duet 3 on the shelf looking for a suitable machine. One first generation Duet in a Logo/Turtle style robot!

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      • A Former User?
        A Former User
        last edited by A Former User

        For PLA plain heated glass has done the trick for me. Whatever material the buildtak style stuff Tiertime ships with their Up! Mini 2 woks pretty well with both PLA and ABS, but due to weak heater and thin PCB as "flex plate" prints do warp even when sticking to the bed.

        Reading good things about phenolic paper materials like some of the cheaper FR2 PCBs for PETG and PA but have yet to find a large enough piece that is both flat and reasonably priced. The thicker pieces I've seen used are quite pricy when not available locally.

        Tiertime also make perforated PCBs as print surfaces, don't think there is any special treatment, but the holes do anchor the raft quite well, but again, the whole thing warps due to underpowered bed heater.

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        • PaulHewundefined
          PaulHew
          last edited by

          Both PET-G and PET-G Carbon I am using glass mirrors 4mm with 3D-Lac with no issues whatsoever.
          I have 2 mirrors, I take one off let it cool and use the other one and start printing again.

          RailCore II - Duet Mini + 1LC, Voron V0.1 - Duet Mini
          Voron 2.4 disassembled..... Waiting for the RailCore Mini....

          DocTruckerundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • DocTruckerundefined
            DocTrucker @PaulHew
            last edited by

            @paulhew what bed level sensor?

            Running 3 P3Steel with Duet 2. Duet 3 on the shelf looking for a suitable machine. One first generation Duet in a Logo/Turtle style robot!

            PaulHewundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • PaulHewundefined
              PaulHew @DocTrucker
              last edited by

              @doctrucker BL Touch V2

              RailCore II - Duet Mini + 1LC, Voron V0.1 - Duet Mini
              Voron 2.4 disassembled..... Waiting for the RailCore Mini....

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              • deckingmanundefined
                deckingman
                last edited by

                I use 3D lac on glass for everything including PET-G - no probs whatsoever. But, 3D lac plays havoc with DC's IR sensor.

                Ian
                https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

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                • DocTruckerundefined
                  DocTrucker
                  last edited by DocTrucker

                  Thanks all. Looks like I turned down plain 3DLAC / hairspray too soon for PETG.

                  On the latter note the similarities between the smell of hair spray and 3DLAC has led me to but an £0.89 300ml can of 'Ultra Hold' hairspray to try after the 3DLAC runs dry! 😄

                  Running 3 P3Steel with Duet 2. Duet 3 on the shelf looking for a suitable machine. One first generation Duet in a Logo/Turtle style robot!

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                  • dc42undefined
                    dc42 administrators
                    last edited by

                    My main printer uses PrintBite, which I find works well for both PLA and PETG. On another printer I print PLA on heated uncoated glass, and on a third I print PLA on cold blue tape.

                    Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                    Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                    http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                    • Phaedruxundefined
                      Phaedrux Moderator
                      last edited by

                      PEI with PVA glue stick works for me with pretty much everything. For things that stick to the PEI too well, the glue stick helps to work like a release agent and when the bed has cooled a bit I just get the edge of a blade under and it comes up pretty easy. For things that don't stick well or tend to warp like ABS, etc the glue stick seems to give it enough stick. I use a spray of 90% Isopropanol to refresh it after a print and it lasts for several prints before it gets cloudy or too much gets pulled up with the print. Then I either add another layer of glue stick or I'll just clean the bed off and start again.

                      Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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                      • curieosundefined
                        curieos
                        last edited by

                        I use PEI for everything. PETG may stick too well though, I haven't had a chance to print it on a non-flexible bed surface yet, so I'm not sure about that. Like Phaedrux says though, you can always use PVA glue to prevent this. ABS and PLA work fine without.

                        She/Her
                        I work at a local 3D printing shop.
                        Printers: Micron+ w/Duet 3 Mini, in-progress adaptation of the Jubilee REL onto an E3D MS, Prusa i3 MK3S.

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                        • antlestxpundefined
                          antlestxp
                          last edited by

                          PEI works really well for most materials

                          zaptaundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • zaptaundefined
                            zapta @antlestxp
                            last edited by

                            @antlestxp said in Bed Surface Recomendations - PETG, PLA, ABS:

                            PEI works really well for most materials

                            +1

                            Flexible sticks a little bit too good to PEI so I rub a little bit of baby powder to reduce the first layer adhesion.

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                            • DocTruckerundefined
                              DocTrucker
                              last edited by DocTrucker

                              I'd tried PEI and didn't get along with it. After one build with PLA it was permanently marked with the outline of the print.

                              Edit: PrintBite+ (Flex3D) is the surface which seems very durable but I am getting significant first layer issues both with the original RepRapPro IR sensor and dc42s sensor. I'm not sure if this is sensor or surface originated issue. It's mounted on a sheet of glass. PEI is direct on heater, although I can see mysrlf ripping that off and using a removable glass bed on that machine too.

                              Running 3 P3Steel with Duet 2. Duet 3 on the shelf looking for a suitable machine. One first generation Duet in a Logo/Turtle style robot!

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                              • Vetiundefined
                                Veti
                                last edited by

                                @doctrucker said in Bed Surface Recomendations - PETG, PLA, ABS:

                                I'd tried PEI and didn't get along with it. After one build with PLA it was permanently marked with the outline of the print.

                                maybe you did the same stupid thing i did. not realizing that there was a protective plastic film on the pei.
                                could not get good adhesion. and the print left a mark in the plastic like a damaged surface.

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                                • gtj0undefined
                                  gtj0
                                  last edited by

                                  I'm using PrintBite+ as well over a 6mm MIC-6 aluminum bed. In the beginning, I was also using @dc42's IR probe but over time, the PrintBite has lifted microscopically from the bed giving it a mottled appearance that the IR probe translated into bed surface variations of up to 0.250mm. Last month I finally moved to a Precision Piezo Orion and without touching the PrintBite, am now getting variations of only 0.005 - 0.025mm

                                  The PrintBite itself is the best surface I've used. Rarely I'll use a little glue stick around the edges of an ABS or Nylon part but for the most part, no other prep is used.

                                  dc42undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • 1riundefined
                                    1ri
                                    last edited by

                                    good night,
                                    I take advantage of google translator services to better express what I want to say.
                                    I've been battling for a long time with print surfaces. From an MK2 base of aluminum with lacquer, borosolate glass with or without lacquer, abs glue or stick.
                                    The first attempt to make a removable base was with a sheet of ferritic steel attached to the base with a series of magnets. On that sheet, not very flexible but enough to remove the pieces, I put an original buildtak sheet. He did not convince me, although at that time it was the best option I tried.
                                    It lasted little and the price, for a non-professional use, was excessive. I started testing Aliexpress printing surfaces. The only advantage was the price. But any error of first layer that lowered the head caused that the sheet was broken when retiring (or to try) the piece.
                                    It must be said that I use DC42 IR Probe to adjust the two Z motors and to level the print surface (G32 and G29). That is why there were errors in the first layers depending on the material / color of the print surface.
                                    Reading David's instructions at miscsolutions I tried to test the PEI sheet that has received such good reviews everywhere. So I bought a kit from Aliexpres and a sheet of magnet from Amazon.

                                    The first thing I tried was the PEI directly on the flexible surface of steel. Too much reflection The IR sensor gave too irregular surfaces and each first layer had to be adjusted by Z Babystepping.
                                    I leave the image to see how the IR sensor detected the surface as it arrives from the vendor.
                                    0_1560630452328_PEI_Original.png

                                    The result was not very good and I tried to paint the metal surface before sticking the PEI sheet. I gave two "layers" of paint with a permanent marker then I attached the PEI sheet on top. Unlike other sheets, the ones I have used are very fine, in the order of 0.125mm. and they are not manipulable as mentioned in the Miscsolutions website that I have indicated before. The result was not encouraging, on the contrary. The permanent marker was excessively bright and the IR sensor detected the surface in a more erratic way as can be seen in the next image.
                                    0_1560631037153_PEI_Permanent.png

                                    Finally I bought the paint spray-on barbecue & stove paint recommended on the Miscsoutions website and all the problems were finished. I gave two layers of paint with two separations between them. I cured them in the oven at 170 ° C for two hours, I stuck the PEI sheet and the result is in sight.
                                    0_1560631546834_PEI_BBQ.png

                                    It must be said that between the tests, there has been no correction of the height in Z. My printer is a Hypercube Evolution with a micro switch on Z- and the IR sensor to level the surface and that all the tests I did same day, since I have several sheets of flexible steel and I have been able to mount the three configurations to see the differences.

                                    Regarding printing features, I have found that PETG does not need any adjustment. First layer at 15-20mm/s, bed temperature between 50-70 ° C and filament at the temperature marked by the manufacturer.
                                    ABS I have not tried it yet, until it gets hotter and can have the ventilated house I will not print with ABS.
                                    As for PLA and other compounds of PLA (Glow in the Dark), I must say that I raise de bed temperature of the first layer between 75-80ºC so that the first layer adheres well. In first complicated layers, which have many profiles, shapes, hard angles and holes, it helps a lot of lacquer, but lowering the speed does not need lacquer.

                                    I usually print at 0.15mm layer height with a first layer of 0.2mm

                                    The best of this system is that you can remove the print surface outside the base and remove the piece by flicking the steel sheet with PEI.
                                    I first tried with high temperature magnets, which needed a base machining to be able to reliably put them. Then I went to the magnetic sheet and, for now, holds 115 ° C without losing magnetism.
                                    Sorry for the extension of the answer and for any mistake that that has passed the google translator reef, but I think it's good to share what has cost me time and money to get.

                                    For days I have printed without any problem in the first layer and removing the pieces by simple bending of the base. Great!!

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                                    • dc42undefined
                                      dc42 administrators @gtj0
                                      last edited by

                                      @gtj0 said in Bed Surface Recomendations - PETG, PLA, ABS:

                                      I'm using PrintBite+ as well over a 6mm MIC-6 aluminum bed. In the beginning, I was also using @dc42's IR probe but over time, the PrintBite has lifted microscopically from the bed giving it a mottled appearance that the IR probe translated into bed surface variations of up to 0.250mm.

                                      FWIW you can now buy black PrintBite, which should avoid the problems that the IR sensor has with transparent surfaces.

                                      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                      gtj0undefined DocTruckerundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • gtj0undefined
                                        gtj0 @dc42
                                        last edited by

                                        @dc42 said in Bed Surface Recomendations - PETG, PLA, ABS:

                                        FWIW you can now buy black PrintBite, which should avoid the problems that the IR sensor has with transparent surfaces.

                                        Didn't know that. I don't relish trying to take off the existing 500x500mm sheet though and it took 3 months to get it in the first place. I do like the IR probe better just from a mounting perspective so maybe I'll have to see what Jason's lead time is now.

                                        DocTruckerundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • DocTruckerundefined
                                          DocTrucker @dc42
                                          last edited by DocTrucker

                                          @dc42 said in Bed Surface Recomendations - PETG, PLA, ABS:

                                          FWIW you can now buy black PrintBite, which should avoid the problems that the IR sensor has with transparent surfaces.

                                          I am using back PrintBite+. I don't think your sensor likes it. It's mounted on a 3mm glass bed. I was doing a four point bed level check but based on the reply from @1ri I will try mesh probe.

                                          @1ri thanks for your post. I will read that more carefully soon!

                                          Running 3 P3Steel with Duet 2. Duet 3 on the shelf looking for a suitable machine. One first generation Duet in a Logo/Turtle style robot!

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                                          • DocTruckerundefined
                                            DocTrucker @gtj0
                                            last edited by

                                            @gtj0 said in Bed Surface Recomendations - PETG, PLA, ABS:

                                            Didn't know that. I don't relish trying to take off the existing 500x500mm sheet though and it took 3 months to get it in the first place. I do like the IR probe better just from a mounting perspective so maybe I'll have to see what Jason's lead time is now.

                                            As said above I am using plain black PrintBite+. I do like it but am struggling with the first layer problems. The variation is enough to go from nozzle completely on the bed to the bead not touching the bed when depositing a 0.24mm layer thickness.

                                            I will try mesh probe and also direct to hairsprayed glass.

                                            Running 3 P3Steel with Duet 2. Duet 3 on the shelf looking for a suitable machine. One first generation Duet in a Logo/Turtle style robot!

                                            gtj0undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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