Blobs with PA and w/o



  • Hello,

    I am struggling to tune my PA setting to get rid of blobs on every layer change. I did try PA 0.25-0.8 with no luck. Then switched to coast and wipe in Simplify3D feels a bit better but still not what I expect. Bowden tube is 850mm. BMG extruder. Custom CoreXY. 9mm retraction.

    There is my config.g. Maybe somebody can guide me through what else I can tweak? Thank you!

    ; Configuration file for Duet WiFi (firmware version 2.03)
    ; executed by the firmware on start-up
    ;
    ; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v2.1.4 on Thu Jan 02 2020 22:17:48 GMT+0100 (Central European Standard Time)
    
    ; General preferences
    G90                                             ; send absolute coordinates...
    M83                                             ; ...but relative extruder moves
    M550 P"own"                                     ; set printer name
    
    M667 S1                                         ; select CoreXY mode
    
    ; Network
    M552 S1                                         ; enable network
    M586 P0 S1                                      ; enable HTTP
    M586 P1 S0                                      ; disable FTP
    M586 P2 S0                                      ; disable Telnet
    
    ; Drives
    M569 P0 S1                                      ; physical drive 0 goes forwards
    M569 P1 S1                                      ; physical drive 1 goes forwards
    M569 P2 S1                                      ; physical drive 2 goes forwards
    M569 P3 S0                                      ; physical drive 3 goes backwards
    M569 P4 S1                                      ; physical drive 4 goes forwards
    M584 X0 Y1 Z2 E3:4                              ; set drive mapping
    M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16:16 I1                      ; configure microstepping with interpolation
    M92 X201.207 Y201.207 Z400.00 E415:415		; set steps per mm
    M566 X1300 Y1300 Z80 E1200.00:1200.00      	; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
    M203 X10000 Y10000.00 Z200 E10000.00:10000.00   ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
    M201 X900 Y900 Z250 E10000.00:10000.00      	; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
    M906 X800 Y800 Z1300 E700:700 I30               ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
    M84 S90                                         ; Set idle timeout
    ;M572 D0:1 S0.45:0.45				; Pressure advance	
    
    ; Axis Limits
    M208 X-12 Y0 Z0 S1                                ; set axis minima
    M208 X316 Y267.5 Z334 S0                        ; set axis maxima
    
    ; Endstops
    M574 X1 Y1 S0                                   ; set active low and disabled endstops
    M574 Z1 S2                                      ; set endstops controlled by probe
    
    ; Z-Probe
    M307 H3 A-1 C-1 D-1                             ; disable heater on PWM channel for BLTouch
    M558 P9 H5 F300 T15000                          ; set Z probe type to bltouch and the dive height + speeds
    G31 P500 X-10 Y-51.5 Z0.8                            ; set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height
    M557 X0:290 Y0:250 S15                      ; define mesh grid
    
    ; Heaters
    M140 H-1                                        ; disable heated bed
    M305 P1 X200                                    ; configure PT100 for heater 1
    M143 H1 S450                                    ; set temperature limit for heater 1 to 450C
    M305 P2 X201                                    ; configure PT100 for heater 2
    M143 H2 S450                                    ; set temperature limit for heater 2 to 450C
    
    ; Fans
    M106 P0 S0 I0 F500 H-1                          ; set fan 0 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned off
    M106 P1 S1 I0 F500 H-1                          ; set fan 1 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned off
    M106 P2 S1 I0 F500 H-1                          ; set fan 2 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned off
    
    ; Tools
    M563 P0 S"Left" D0 H1 F-1                       ; define tool 0
    G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0                                 ; set tool 0 axis offsets
    G10 P0 S0 R0 				; Set tool 0 active and standby temperatures
    M563 P1 S"Right" D1 H2 F-1                      ; define tool 1
    G10 P1 X20 Y0 Z0                                 ; set tool 1 axis offsets
    G10 P1 S0 R0 				; Set tool 0 active and standby temperatures
    
    ; Custom settings are not defined
    
    ; Miscellaneous
    M501                                            ; load saved parameters from non-volatile memory
    
    
    

    IMG_5819.jpg



  • it does look like there is a lot of backlash on your printer.
    while the motors are energized. grab the hotend and try to move it with a finger. idealy it should not move.



  • @Veti

    Just tried that, I should push really hard to make gantry move.



  • @felt342 said in Blobs with PA and w/o:

    Just tried that, I should push really hard to make gantry move.

    no its about play in the position in the hotend.
    i.e can you move it with one finger like a mm back and forth.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backlash_(engineering)



  • @Veti

    Oh sorry, seems stable, doesnt move at all to me.



  • @felt342 said in Blobs with PA and w/o:

    E415

    can you set your E steps to 375 and do a test print



  • @Veti
    There is it, looks the same to me.

    IMG_5824.jpeg



  • does the printhead spend a lot of time in those corners?



  • and to rule out the slicer. can you test with a different slicer. i.e prusaslicer or cura.



  • @Veti

    No, It was before until I crank up acceleration and jerk for a extruder. Than it’s start moving instantly but those corners still left. Shall I make a small video?



  • @Veti

    Ok I will try Cura!



  • @Veti

    I did try Cura, was looking the same to me. I switched to Simplify3D back as I am familiar with it. I did turn off retraction completely and PA. Was a lot of oozing but had minimal blobs. Tune retraction to 3.0mm extra restart distance of -0.2 and PA 0.45 lead to those results, which is finally a progress, blobs are getting much less visible, but still there - I guess tweaking retractions and PA next? I have been a bit surprised how it was possible with such a long tube of 850mm to have 3mm retraction only.

    There is a couple of images: first, around 20 layers was without PA just retraction of 3.mm. After PA was set to 0.45.

    IMG_5826.jpeg IMG_5825.jpeg


  • Moderator

    @felt342 said in Blobs with PA and w/o:

    I did try PA 0.25-0.8 with no luck. Bowden tube is 850mm.

    You should try more PA with such a long bowden tube. Some people are using 1 or more.

    https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Pressure_advance#Section_How_much_pressure_advance_to_use

    Use the test procedure described here to test values from 0.8 up to 1 and see if you can start to notice a difference. Disable wipe and coast when using pressure advance.



  • I did try out PA till 2.0 with 0.10 steps with wipe and coast disabled. I could not reach the desired effect and I could not see any difference higher than 0.7 to be honest. I turned off PA completely switched back to coast and wipe set in Simplify3D:

    So far these settings gave me the best result - I would say almost perfect. I do have high-speed settings a bit- therefore there is ringing. Now it's a time to tweak it and hopefully not produce blobs again... πŸ™‚

    M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16:16 I1                      ; configure microstepping with interpolation
    M92 X201.207 Y201.207 Z400.00 E415:415		; set steps per mm
    M566 X2000 Y2000 Z350 E3000.00:3000.00      	; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
    M203 X10000 Y10000.00 Z400 E10000.00:10000.00   ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
    M201 X900 Y900 Z600 E4000.00:4000.00      	; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
    M906 X800 Y800 Z1300 E700:700 I30               ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
    M84 S90                                         ; Set idle timeout
    

    Capture.JPG

    IMG_5833.jpeg IMG_5834.jpeg IMG_5831.jpeg IMG_5832.jpeg


  • Moderator

    Good stuff. Very long bowden setups are hard to tune. That's looking quite good.



  • @Phaedrux

    Yeah after reading a bunch of forums and blobs related issue I start to regret about using bowden, until now... will see, keep tweaking. Still thinking would be better to come back on using PA, just need more time for tweaking I guess.



  • @Phaedrux

    My next problem appears to be - ringing!
    I just changed my jerk and acceleration of XYZ back to more or less normal values from

    M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16:16 I1                      ; configure microstepping with interpolation
    M92 X201.207 Y201.207 Z400.00 E415:415		; set steps per mm
    M566 X2000 Y2000 Z350 E3000.00:3000.00      	; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
    M203 X10000 Y10000.00 Z400 E10000.00:10000.00   ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
    M201 X900 Y900 Z600 E4000.00:4000.00      	; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
    M906 X800 Y800 Z1300 E700:700 I30               ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
    M84 S90                                         ; Set idle timeout
    

    to

    M92 X201.207 Y201.207 Z400.00 E415:415		; set steps per mm
    M566 X700 Y700 Z250 E3000.00:3000.00      	; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
    M203 X10000 Y10000.00 Z300 E10000.00:10000.00   ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
    M201 X800 Y800 Z400 E4000.00:4000.00      	; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
    M906 X800 Y800 Z1300 E700:700 I30               ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
    M84 S90                                         ; Set idle timeout
    

    And got this huge ringing effect, is that normal? I would prefer to use lower values of jerk/acceleration, as my printer works quiter with those values. Does it mean what higher jerk can solve some of ring effects?

    IMG_5839.jpeg



  • Have a read up on Dynamic Acceleration Adjustment, or DAA for short. Do a search for that in the duet gcode wiki. It helped my machines.

    Edit: https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M593_Configure_Dynamic_Acceleration_Adjustment



  • @DocTrucker

    Thats a lot looks promising. I will give an try tomorrow after work.
    Really surprised how many cool features those Duet boards have...!



  • @felt342 That's a very impressive tune for such a long Bowden tube. I gave up trying to get such a long tube to work on my CoreXY and converted it to direct drive instead.

    It wasn't that I couldn't get the machine to print nice cubes (and without the warping you have on the bottom of yours), but what worked for one print wouldn't work for the next one.

    Direct drive fixed all that and made the printer much more consistent.

    Ringing is fixed in two ways: slow down or stiffen up!

    If there is a resonance problem, DAA can fix that. If there are other problems with the mechanics or simply exceeding the acceleration that the frame can tolerate, then DAA will not help you.

    If slowing down doesn't cure the problem, then you need to look hard at the motion system.

    If it helps, these are my settings for the motion system from my V-Core CoreXY. It can print close to 300x300x300mm and runs on 24V with beefy 2A 4.8Kg/cm NEMA17 stepper motors which drive 9mm wide belts.

    The theoretical maximums were calculated using wilriker's Maximun Accelleration calculator and other calculators available at reprapfirmware.org and reprap.org

    ; Motion settings
    ;
    ; The V-Core is theoretically capable of the following settings:
    ; M566 X1200.00 Y1200.00 Z100.00 E3600.00     ; Maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
    ; M203 X18000.00 Y18000.00 Z600.00 E3600.00   ; Maximum speeds (mm/min)
    ; M201 X5800.00 Y5800.00 Z180.00 E3600.00     ; Maximum accelerations (mm/s^2) for X and Y. Z and E are best guesses
    
    M566 X600.00 Y600.00 Z100.00 E3600.00       ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
    M203 X18000.00 Y18000.00 Z600.00 E3600.00   ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
    M201 X600.00 Y600.00 Z180.00 E3600.00       ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
    M906 X1600.00 Y1600.00 Z1800.00 E595.00 I30 ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor as percentage of normal current
    

    My print speeds are dynamic and depend on things like if the printer is printing infill, outer perimeters or bridges. Print speeds range from 30 - 100mm/s with travel moves at 200mm/s. I use Prusa Slicer and take advantage of the volumetric speed limit to restrict the maximum volumetric speed when slicing to what I know the particular filament is capable of. I find this gives me much more consistent dimensions and interlayer adhesion.



  • Forgot one thing,

    With direct drive, I use a PA setting of 0.06 with a 0.4mm nozzle and 0.03 for a 0.5mm nozzle.



  • Regards DAA this was the level of improvement I saw. My initial issue wasn't as defined as yours and to be hones the mechanics of your system appear better dialled in. DAA on the left, not on the right.

    DSC_1225_red.JPG

    Super rigid is thought of as the ideal, but compliance can often smooth over underlying issues. I've had frustrations where the better I've made my system in comparison to my original Ormerod (which is still running) the worse (or more pronounced) some surface artefacts have become.

    Direct Drive, PLA, 210C:
    Pressure Advance: 0.044

    Similar setup 300mm bowden:
    Pressure advance: 0.4



  • @grizewald

    Thanks for sharing!
    I did fix ringing seems, for now - I had loose belt... πŸ˜„ I don`t know what happened but might be I should put some Loctite on screws what holds belts...
    I also found a way to shorten my bowden tube by around 10cm. But would be surer on the last stage of assembling the printer.
    Mine jerk and acceleration values are very close to yours - but thinking of tweaking them a bit higher. However, I can't lower my extruder acceleration and jerk as those values help me with retraction a lot, the big downside is probably it will wear out quicker gears in the extruder, but will see. Glad Bondtech sells them separately..
    That warp what I have on all my cubes - its because I don't have heated bed and printing on just normal painters tape. That tape just delaminates from aluminum bed with the object. Hopefully this week I should receive a silicone heater. πŸ™‚

    @DocTrucker

    I did try DAA, man that just smoothes out all small issues with ringing! Thanks!

    The cube is 50x50;

    IMG_5852.jpeg IMG_5846.jpeg



  • Is the line on the left of Y the seam? Did you change the Start Points setting on Layer tab? Because in the first prints the start points were in the corners and in the ones where you have no issues they are in a line.
    I am asking, because I need to tune the settings to get rid of the same issues.



  • @OBELIKS

    Seam is here, and I didnt change location of seam from begining;

    1579681415893-img_5852.jpeg


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