Where's the Duet Wifi 3?
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@Veti said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:
@BDubs said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:
The speed of what is better because of the RPi?
the pi 4 has a 4x 1,8 ghz processor. it handles data transfer and processing in sbc mode
I don't know what SBC is in this context.
So far, data transfer via Duet 2 has not been a problem/slow for me. My understanding is the entire GCode file is transferred in its entirety to the SD card before any motion takes place. The onboard processor then parses out chunks of the code and loads it into the buffer and does all its look-ahead calculations - on the Duet. There is (or rather there should not be) any GCode commands flying through the air via wifi during the print, aside from feedback updating the console or changes you've made on screen, such as baby stepping or adjusting fans etc. - which are handled/calculated on the Duet board and not your PC/phone et al. The Duet simply transforms the existing file and settings...
So...the RPi can have a gajillion Ghz processor on it and it won't make the Duet processor run any faster. File transfer may be faster due to newer wireless hardware on the RPi, but aside from this, I don't think anyone will see a huge difference vs the Wifi 2 or what could have been the Wifi 3. You still have to go through your router...
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@BDubs The PI4 can use the 5ghz wifi, and it's faster than the 2.4ghz wifi that the Duet 2 uses.
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sbc stands for single board computer. the pi in this case
the onboard sd card slot is not used in sbc mode. the pi acts as a virtual sd card slot.
the calculation for the movement actually happen on the pi in this case and not the duet processor.
think of it like klipper. -
Embedded options for wifi (ESP chips) are really not great. The Pi's wifi is considerably better.
What is the difference between buying a Duet 3 6HC + Raspberry Pi and the board you propose? I'm not sure I see the issue here, and the Raspberry Pi offers a whole lot more functionality than just wifi.
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@BDubs said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:
As a customer I'm thinking to myself, "Wow this Wifi 2 is great! ~ I can hardly wait to buy a Wifi 3!" But it's not the same thing...there's not even a provision on the Duet 3 for a NRF24L01 Wireless Module to plug in ... It just seems awfully backwards to me.
NRF24s are not wifi devices, for starters.
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I used the NRF24 as an example...not getting caught up in the technical minutia - I don't think it's outside the realm of reasonable expectation to desire a Duet Wifi 3. Why doesn't the Duet 3 use similar wifi hardware as the RPi? (I say this redundantly...with partial wishful thinking)
OK...well I guess the only way is to use a RPi then. Why my reluctance to it? Because it took me like 2 days just to cobble together a PiHole and sudo this and that isn't 2nd nature...there are so many things with Linux where it is assumed you know (or should know) something and you have to go half way around the world to figure out what that is exactly. Granted, many things are just download and install - but it's another layer of expertise you need over the Wifi 2. My time for learning is short and prone to frequent interruption...
I guess I'll have to bite the bullet...albeit reluctantly. Thanks for the replies.
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The reason for the Pi is that it opens up a lot of additional functionality like large touch screen displays, wifi connectivity, post processing, plugins, etc.
There is a premade image for the Pi that comes loaded with everything required. So if you managed a PiHole this is a walk in the park.
Your request for a wifi version of the Duet 3 is noted.
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I found using a little travel access point like the GL.inet AR-300 brings wifi to the ethernet only devices (like the duet 0.6 board on the Ormerod i am still working on ... although that's currently running a duet3 mini), with very little hassle.
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@BDubs said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:
I used the NRF24 as an example...not getting caught up in the technical minutia - I don't think it's outside the realm of reasonable expectation to desire a Duet Wifi 3. Why doesn't the Duet 3 use similar wifi hardware as the RPi? (I say this redundantly...with partial wishful thinking)
Lots of reasons.
- The parts used by the Raspberry Pi are not used in an off-the-shelf module, so it would require doing some pretty complicated RF design
- Using off the shelf/already certified modules like the ESP or Raspberry Pi simplifies regulatory requirements (you can't just design your own radio transmitter/receiver and sell it)
I'm not sure I understand the difference between a "NRF24 style" module/board and a RPi, why the former is acceptable and the latter isn't. SD card images already exist for a RaspberryPi/Duet3 setup.
Or, as has been suggested in this thread, you can just use a ethernet to wifi bridge. ~$20, and no "sudo-ing".
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i also hate rpi and other types of toy computers .
if the board is meant for the industry or professionals - they dont use those toy computers also.
i read duet 3 documentation and it seems it can run in stand alone mode ,connected via Ethernet port .
so its like duet 2 ethernet i guess.
i dont think the rpi is doing any movement calculaions or anything related . rpi is used for UI and plug-ins only. -
@hackinistrator correct. An the Pi isn't the only SBC you can use. And you can use it standalone like an ethernet, and if you want to add wifi there are wifi to ethernet bridge adapters you can get that work well. And if they fail you don't have to desolder a component to replace it. Plus the adapter is likely to support 5ghz networks or whatever future wifi standard that comes along. It's alot easier to change along the way. Ethernet is a good solid default connection. There are options all around.
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@hackinistrator said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:
if the board is meant for the industry or professionals - they dont use those toy computers also.
pretty sure i just watched a Jeff Gerling video showing statistics from Raspberry Pi Trading that almost half of the 35 million Pi's sold, were sold to industry clients.
but this does seem to be the thread for venting so maybe i should take my facts elsewhere.
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Wifi options duly noted...
I think rj45 to wifi is a cludge...not quite as elegant as the wifi2 arrangement. I picture a beautifully well thought out control box, and then there's this 'thing' that doesn't belong you have to do something with.
5GHz isn't the end all be all over 2.4 - for instance, 5Ghz might be faster if you are close to the access point, but 2.4 has a much longer range.
Question: is the Beaglebone green or black compatible with the Duet 3?
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@bearer said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:
@hackinistrator said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:
if the board is meant for the industry or professionals - they dont use those toy computers also.
pretty sure i just watched a Jeff Gerling video showing statistics from Raspberry Pi Trading that almost half of the 35 million Pi's sold, were sold to industry clients.
but this does seem to be the thread for venting so maybe i should take my facts elsewhere.
I'll take the brunt of the complaining comment. I only bought several Duets and peripherals so as a paying customer not 100% satisfied with the upgrade path, I'm entitled to my opinion. God forbid anyone should think differently from the herd. Seems to be a theme in 2020... just go along with the herd... hey NOPE!
Please list the number of commercial or industrial motion controllers that use raspberry pi computers on them. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble but a Smoothieboard is not commercial and not anywhere near industrial.
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@bearer
Indeed those small SBCs, like the PI are far from "toys" and are widely used in many fields.
My car has over 100 very small computers with far less capability than a PI.
Frederick
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@fcwilt I'm sure there are...BUT how many controllers you are likely to see sold on a commercial or industrial CNC machine use a RPi? The answer is zero.
On a 'hobby' machine, anything goes and that's where you see RPi's and Arduino based hardware. Why? The answer ALWAYS is because they are cheap to buy & no other reason.
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interesting thread, was thinking about the same thing a few days ago.
I have 2 duet 2 wifi's and I really like those boards, while @Veti and @bearer have valid points concerning the Rpi, there is one factor that must be taken into account here and that is cost, not everyone wants to shell out 200€ for a Duet 3 (and the Rpi isn't free either!).
I would love to see a new HW version of the Duet 2 wifi, maybe with a faster CPU and better wifi (ESP32 + external antenna ? ) -
@BDubs said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:
@fcwilt I'm sure there are...BUT how many controllers you are likely to see sold on a commercial or industrial CNC machine use a RPi? The answer is zero.
On a 'hobby' machine, anything goes and that's where you see RPi's and Arduino based hardware. Why? The answer ALWAYS is because they are cheap to buy & no other reason.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong.
Some 35 plus years in the industry and the biggest difference is form factor. Industrial controllers are often less capable than a PI.
I've used industrial automation controllers that were in the same price range as a PI. They tend to be more rugged and this has an associated cost.
Frederick
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I was wondering how many posts before we'd be comparing processing power of the Pi to the lunar module...
How much longer will the WiFi 2 will be produced before the end of life announcement is made? There are many printer manufacturers out there that use it currently.
