Navigation

    Duet3D Logo

    Duet3D

    • Register
    • Login
    • Search
    • Categories
    • Tags
    • Documentation
    • Order

    Thank for the massive update about PID TUNING !!!

    General Discussion
    13
    35
    776
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • jrockland
      jrockland last edited by

      The new PID TUNING function work sooo much better !!!! can't believe it !

      Thank you guy soo much

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
      • Phaedrux
        Phaedrux Moderator last edited by

        Glad you like it.

        Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

        deckingman 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • deckingman
          deckingman @Phaedrux last edited by

          @Phaedrux said in Thank for the massive update about PID TUNING !!!:

          Glad you like it.

          @dc42 doesn't read my posts any more so I'll ask you. At the end of tuning my bed heater (H0), the displayed M307 command that one should use does not include the B0. On the basis that the documentation still says that it is necessary, I've added it. Can you confirm that B0 is still required to disable bang-bang mode and if it is, can the message which appears after a successful tune be amended to include it?
          (I don't use M500 so cannot say one way or the other if the B0 gets added to config_overide.g)

          Ian
          https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
          https://www.youtube.com/c/deckingman/

          jay_s_uk OwenD 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • jay_s_uk
            jay_s_uk @deckingman last edited by

            @deckingman B0 gets added when using M500

            Owns various duet boards and is the main wiki maintainer for the Teamgloomy LPC/STM32 port of RRF

            A Former User 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • A Former User
              A Former User @jay_s_uk last edited by

              @jay_s_uk

              Does that mean that heat-plate-tuning is by default now PID and not anymore "bang-bang"/0-1 ? And by issuing M500 that B0 is automatically saved to overwrite any potential B1?

              jay_s_uk 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • jay_s_uk
                jay_s_uk @Guest last edited by

                @LB M303 tuning is PID tuning so whenever you have carried that out you'll be using PID.
                bang-bang is inferior and can lead to other artefacts on the print surface

                Owns various duet boards and is the main wiki maintainer for the Teamgloomy LPC/STM32 port of RRF

                A Former User 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • A Former User
                  A Former User @jay_s_uk last edited by

                  @jay_s_uk said in Thank for the massive update about PID TUNING !!!:

                  @LB M303 tuning is PID tuning so whenever you have carried that out you'll be using PID.
                  bang-bang is inferior and can lead to other artefacts on the print surface

                  Wow - that was fast! THX! Could that be reflected in the doku:

                  Because if it is inferior, is it still default like written here or is this out of date:
                  "Bn selects Bang-bang control instead of PID if non-zero. Default at power-up is 0 for extruder heaters, 1 for the bed heater."https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M307_Set_or_report_heating_process_parameters

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • Phaedrux
                    Phaedrux Moderator last edited by

                    @LB Bang-bang is usually inferior to PID, but there are times when it is preferred. Setting B1 by itself won't automatically put you in PID mode because PID mode requires your heater to be profiled/tuned to function in that mode, so B0 is still the default.

                    @deckingman My understanding is that when PID values are provided, B0 is assumed, since providing values for bang bang wouldn't make sense, but I'll seek clarification.

                    Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • OwenD
                      OwenD @deckingman last edited by OwenD

                      @deckingman
                      Yes, you need to add B1. Edit: It's B0 for PID on the bed
                      The hint at the end of tuning doesn't show it, but M500 does.
                      Also if you're using a mains powered bed you need the change the V24/12 to V0
                      I just copied the hint the first time and couldn't figure out why I was getting such erratic temps after tuning. Without B1 it will default to bang-bang.

                      I did report this, so I presume the hint will get updated at some time.

                      garyd9 deckingman 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • garyd9
                        garyd9 @OwenD last edited by

                        @OwenD said in Thank for the massive update about PID TUNING !!!:

                        Also if you're using a mains powered bed you need the change the V24/12 to V0

                        I never realized that before. I assume that applies when the bed is powered by AC mains, but controlled by a SSR attached to the duet as well.

                        Quite a few people are probably running AC powered silicone heaters via a SSR with V23.8 or something like that as a parameter to the respective M307 command.

                        "I'm not saying that you are wrong - I'm just trying to fit it into my real world simulated experience."

                        Nuramori 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • Nuramori
                          Nuramori @garyd9 last edited by

                          @garyd9

                          This is new news. When I run an auto tune, the report says to set v to v23.x. I run an ac mains heater bed. Am I reading this correctly that if I’m running ac mains for my bed heater I should ignore the v value and set it to zero?

                          garyd9 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • garyd9
                            garyd9 @Nuramori last edited by garyd9

                            @Nuramori said in Thank for the massive update about PID TUNING !!!:

                            @garyd9

                            This is new news. When I run an auto tune, the report says to set v to v23.x. I run an ac mains heater bed. Am I reading this correctly that if I’m running ac mains for my bed heater I should ignore the v value and set it to zero?

                            That's what it looks like, and it's also stated on the duet gcode wiki page (though I never noticed it before) here: https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M307_Set_or_report_heating_process_parameters

                            Check the description of the "V" parameter: "A value of zero disables compensation for changes in supply voltage. Use V0 for AC mains powered heaters." -- that would make sense for something powered on AC mains. No need to send more power to a SSR if the duet measured DC voltage drops.

                            "I'm not saying that you are wrong - I'm just trying to fit it into my real world simulated experience."

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • deckingman
                              deckingman @OwenD last edited by

                              @OwenD said in Thank for the massive update about PID TUNING !!!:

                              @deckingman
                              Yes, you need to add B1. Edit: It's B0 for PID on the bed
                              The hint at the end of tuning doesn't show it, but M500 does.
                              Also if you're using a mains powered bed you need the change the V24/12 to V0
                              I just copied the hint the first time and couldn't figure out why I was getting such erratic temps after tuning. Without B1 it will default to bang-bang.

                              I did report this, so I presume the hint will get updated at some time.

                              On the basis that I've always added the B0 parameter, I've continued to add it after tuning. A moderator thinks it might not be necessary but says he'll confirm.

                              I know the "hint" doesn't show - I am the one who pointed that out.

                              Thanks for pointing out the "V0" thing. That is a very recent change to the documentation. A few days ago (when I tuned my bed heater) , it said something along the lines of omitting the "V" parameter for mains powered heaters - no mention at that time of making it V0.

                              I wish they would add things like this to the release notes, rather than sneaking them into the documentation some time later, after we've studiously read the release notes and implemented any required changes to our configuration files. Looks like I'll have to go back through my configurations yet again, and make further changes........

                              Ian
                              https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                              https://www.youtube.com/c/deckingman/

                              OwenD dc42 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • OwenD
                                OwenD @deckingman last edited by

                                @deckingman
                                It's self evident that you know the hint doesn't give the B0 setting. Otherwise you wouldn't have added it after all.
                                You asked if it was necessary and I indicated it is because without it my printer defaulted to bang-bang and gave rise to large oscillations in bed temp.
                                https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/19761/new-heater-tuning-algorithm/111

                                deckingman 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • deckingman
                                  deckingman @OwenD last edited by

                                  @OwenD said in Thank for the massive update about PID TUNING !!!:

                                  @deckingman
                                  It's self evident that you know the hint doesn't give the B0 setting. Otherwise you wouldn't have added it after all.
                                  You asked if it was necessary and I indicated it is because without it my printer defaulted to bang-bang and gave rise to large oscillations in bed temp.
                                  https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/19761/new-heater-tuning-algorithm/111

                                  Ahh. I misunderstood what you were trying to say which is basically that, yes the B0 parameter is still necessary and should still be added. Furthermore, the "hint" showing the M307 is incorrect because it does not include the B0 parameter. This needs to be corrected IMO.

                                  Ian
                                  https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                  https://www.youtube.com/c/deckingman/

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • dc42
                                    dc42 administrators @deckingman last edited by

                                    @deckingman said in Thank for the massive update about PID TUNING !!!:

                                    @OwenD said in Thank for the massive update about PID TUNING !!!:

                                    @deckingman
                                    Yes, you need to add B1. Edit: It's B0 for PID on the bed
                                    The hint at the end of tuning doesn't show it, but M500 does.
                                    Also if you're using a mains powered bed you need the change the V24/12 to V0
                                    I just copied the hint the first time and couldn't figure out why I was getting such erratic temps after tuning. Without B1 it will default to bang-bang.

                                    I did report this, so I presume the hint will get updated at some time.

                                    On the basis that I've always added the B0 parameter, I've continued to add it after tuning. A moderator thinks it might not be necessary but says he'll confirm.

                                    I know the "hint" doesn't show - I am the one who pointed that out.

                                    Thanks for pointing out the "V0" thing. That is a very recent change to the documentation. A few days ago (when I tuned my bed heater) , it said something along the lines of omitting the "V" parameter for mains powered heaters - no mention at that time of making it V0.

                                    I wish they would add things like this to the release notes, rather than sneaking them into the documentation some time later, after we've studiously read the release notes and implemented any required changes to our configuration files. Looks like I'll have to go back through my configurations yet again, and make further changes........

                                    Omitting the V parameter has the same effect as using V0.

                                    Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                    Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                    http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                    deckingman 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • deckingman
                                      deckingman @dc42 last edited by

                                      @dc42 said in Thank for the massive update about PID TUNING !!!:

                                      Omitting the V parameter has the same effect as using V0.

                                      Thanks for the clarification. It might be an idea if that was added to the documentation too.

                                      Ian
                                      https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                      https://www.youtube.com/c/deckingman/

                                      Phaedrux 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • Phaedrux
                                        Phaedrux Moderator @deckingman last edited by

                                        @deckingman Done

                                        Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                                        deckingman 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • deckingman
                                          deckingman @Phaedrux last edited by

                                          @Phaedrux said in Thank for the massive update about PID TUNING !!!:

                                          @deckingman Done

                                          I meant add DC's comment that omitting the "V" parameter has the same effect as using V0. Or maybe you have elsewhere but not here https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M307_Set_or_report_heating_process_parameters

                                          Ian
                                          https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                          https://www.youtube.com/c/deckingman/

                                          Phaedrux 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • Phaedrux
                                            Phaedrux Moderator @deckingman last edited by

                                            @deckingman Refresh the page perhaps?

                                            Vnnn VIN supply voltage at which the A parameter was calibrated (RepRapFirmware 1.20 and later). This allows the PID controller to compensate for changes in supply voltage. A value of zero disables compensation for changes in supply voltage. Use V0 for AC mains powered heaters. (V0 is the default. Leaving off V is the same as V0)

                                            Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • MartinNYHC
                                              MartinNYHC last edited by MartinNYHC

                                              M303
                                              
                                              Annn (RRF 3.2beta3.2 and later, optional) ambient temperature - 
                                              use this parameter if you want to tune a heater that has been on 
                                              and has not cooled down to embient temperature yet
                                              
                                              M303 H0 S230 A40
                                              Error: M303: heater 0 target temperature must be below the temperature limit for this heater (120.0C)
                                              

                                              Did is misunderstand something?

                                              Phaedrux 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                              • Phaedrux
                                                Phaedrux Moderator @MartinNYHC last edited by

                                                @MartinNYHC said in Thank for the massive update about PID TUNING !!!:

                                                M303 H0 S230 A40 Error: M303: heater 0 target temperature must be below the temperature limit for this heater (120.0C)
                                                Did is misunderstand something?

                                                Yes. You're trying to tune the bed heater to 230c, which is above the max temp limit you've set at 120c.

                                                Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                                                MartinNYHC 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                • MartinNYHC
                                                  MartinNYHC @Phaedrux last edited by

                                                  @Phaedrux said in Thank for the massive update about PID TUNING !!!:

                                                  @MartinNYHC said in Thank for the massive update about PID TUNING !!!:

                                                  M303 H0 S230 A40 Error: M303: heater 0 target temperature must be below the temperature limit for this heater (120.0C)
                                                  Did is misunderstand something?

                                                  Yes. You're trying to tune the bed heater to 230c, which is above the max temp limit you've set at 120c.

                                                  Aaaargh. It has to be H1. That's the second time today I totally messed up. Not my day 🤒

                                                  Veti 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                  • Veti
                                                    Veti @MartinNYHC last edited by

                                                    @MartinNYHC said in Thank for the massive update about PID TUNING !!!:

                                                    H1

                                                    better use T0, if you want tuning with the fan.

                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                    • Mugga
                                                      Mugga last edited by

                                                      I've just updated to version 3.2 coming from 3.1.1 and also did the new PID tuning, using the tool as "heater" M303 T0 S240. Everything went okay so far, but the results arent that good.
                                                      This was the first print I did, it really took some time to get stable temps (there is a 5 degree drop after the first layer via slicer):
                                                      hotend_temps.PNG

                                                      In another print I've got a heater error and a quite spicky graph, forgot to make a screenshoot of it. Cleared the heater fault afterwards and restarted print, which went fine.

                                                      This way my old PID tune with RRF 3.1.1:

                                                      M307 H1 A735.3 C254.6 D5.2 S1.00 V24.2 B0 
                                                      

                                                      And new with 3.2

                                                      M307 H1 R2.576 C273.2:173.4 D5.89 S1.00 V24.3
                                                      

                                                      Any ideas what could be the issue?

                                                      Blacksheep99 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                      • First post
                                                        Last post
                                                      Unless otherwise noted, all forum content is licensed under CC-BY-SA