Anybody using a Duet board with a Klipper SBC?
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If so, please share your experience, pro and cons.
I know very little about Klipper (e.g. 3D printer it uses?) so any information will be greatly appreciated.
Also, one of the things I like the most with Duet/RRF is that I am not expected to install a tool chain and to compile firmware as I had to do in the past. How is Duet+Klipper in that respect?
BTW, I have a Duet2 Wifi and need a strong incentive to add the complexity of a SBC.
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So I don't have experience with a Duet and Klipper but I recently configured a Prusa MK2.5S and a BTT SKR 1.4 with Klipper.
RRF and Klipper work in the same way with regards to config changes, edit a text file, save and restart for them to take effect. Documentation is a little thin for specific things in Klipper in my opinion.
I'm not sure I would bother with Klipper on a Duet if I'm honest.
Follow my adventures in 3D Printing, laser cutting and electronics. https://linktr.ee/Rushmere3D
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@Rushmere3D actually, that's not entirely correct.
One of the main differences between RRF and Klipper is that you can input almost all of the commands from config.g into the console even while printing and have the settings be applied at once. This is unlike in klipper, where config is only done via the printer.cfg file and a reboot is required. -
@pkos many common commands can be sent via console, but in general this is true. There are a few baked-in implementations that I rely on in configuring and calibrating my klipper machines, and in general, the macro format that klipper uses while complicated, is incredibly powerful.
Klipper has a few things it needs to catch up on as well, Duets multitool handing is significantly better, for one.
@zapta I'm currently firing up a Klipper'd Duet 3 Mini. Sofar, It appears that Everything works, but the printer itself isn't quite ready. RRF lays out the D3's pinmap in a clear and understandable way, so I was able to make a quick conversion and everything from endstops to programming the drivers via UART appears to be working correctly, even on the expansion!
Why am I doing this? - beyond my OEM goals, Its a common topic of "which is better?" - with the D3 Mini's quick flashing process, I think I can quickly switch between Klipper and RRF to get back-to-back prints for a final comparison, on what I believe will be a capable machine. This will be an extra-pertinent comparison when input shaping comes in.
In addition, The duet hardware is very good, and is a worthy platform to build off of.
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Using, no. Will be using (soon-ish) - yes, as far as I see it the ageing maestro board will be the first to get dropped from RRF features while Klipper gives it a new lease on life with having the SBC offload the higher functions and the Voron crowd is very Klipper friendly so thats a good match.
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@gaweyo said in Anybody using a Duet board with a Klipper SBC?:
the Voron crowd is very Klipper friendly so thats a good match.
I am following the Nero 3DP youtube channel and he had a few Klipper videos. I was impressed by the one about input shaping.
Do you have a Voron? What version? I have a HEVO and contemplating to build another printer and the Voron 2 and 0 are on my list.
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@zapta
be aware that the voron is meant for abs printing.
it might be missing a bit of part cooling for pla. -
i'm far from being klipper expert , i looked at it and the advantages are not my cup of tea .
main advantages:- high step rates , can print insanely fast .
- can connect several boards together , even if they are not the same type .
- can "revive" your old 8bit board and make it modern .
recently there are tons of videos on youtube of people printing at insanely fast speeds like 500-800mm/s with klipper .
i don't know what this all about . the printed parts look like sh*t , layer adhesion is poor , so whats the point ?
honestly , i print at 30-40mm/s most of the time , with pla i can go with 60mm/s also . above that , and layer adhesion starts to be an issue . -
You've hit alot of the mainstream appeal of it, but have missed 3 of my personal big hitters for highend machines
- iterative solver - no segmentation, no shortcuts
- smoothed lookahead - instead of "jerk" or instantaneous change, it does an exceptional job of cornering based on the angle difference between multiple incoming moves.
- input shaping. I'm aware that RRF has this in its roadmap
As for the speedboat challenge (fast prints) its something started by Annex engineering as a competition to see who can have the fastest benchy. its open-ended and just for fun, so people are just letting it fly.
Here's one of the best example videos by the people who started it. https://youtu.be/pSbYUxf2qaU
As for your print speeds, nobody is forcing anyone to go faster. I print based on the max flowrate of the particular printer's hotend and nozzle, with some exceptions if that printer has under-spec cooling. Don't really have layer adhesion issues at any speed, but that's probably down to the minutia of temp/speed/hotend/nozzle combos, as that's a primary volumetric bound
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@Luke-sLaboratory said in Anybody using a Duet board with a Klipper SBC?:
3 of my personal big hitters for highend machines
Do these improve significantly the print quality?
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- helps for really small stuff, but this is probably the least impactful compared to the other two.
- Yes. Absolutely. Klipper's motion control is best-in-class. smoothed lookahead makes a huge difference, especially when going fast&furious.
- Yessir! Again, input shaping makes it so you can take your previously fine hardware at slower accels and crank them up for faster prints! Here's a 400x400 bedslinger (admittedly unfinished) doing 7k accel - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QePf8ESv3j3wUwLrDP3FBE8x0FJYt_Bv/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1reVza_Q8OEFEL1H66AcMh-YYIYFRVZDZ/view?usp=sharing
The top piece is post-tuning, the bottom is pre-tuning.
The awful lines on the lower peice is because one of my dampers wasn't installed correctly, causing it to hard bounce off the table. I fixed it halfway thru the initial test.
I'll have some side-by-side comparisons between RRF/Klipper on the same hardware+platform hopefully soon for discussion.
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@zapta, I'm sloooooowly printing V0 parts and souring the various bits and bobs. And yes, its Nero3D's fault, all of it. Tempted to switch to switchwire, but I'll try to stay with the V0 to stand a chance of finishing buying the parts any time soon.
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@Luke-sLaboratory looking forward for the comparison. Klipper has much more computation power than the Duet boards (or any other board) and it seems to put it to a good use.
Also, when using a Duet board with Klipper, is there an option for a user friendly touch LCD? (PanelDue or another).
@gaweyo, I wrote off the Switchwire because it's a bed slinger. For some subjective reason I stay away from that configuration.
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@zapta
YepRun a HDMI touchscreen panel off the pi. install Klipperscreen and it will turn into a great interface.
Luke
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Thanks Luke, one more question if you don't mind, I am using the Duet2 Wifi stall detection for my CoreXY x/y homing. Will this still work with Klipper?
As a side note: I wonder what kind of support Duet3 provide for customers that use their boards with Klipper rather than RRF. I guess that kind of support will come from the Klipper side.
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Not sure. Haven't implemented it on the D2. Check out the klipper discord and other for more info.
Not sure on the other q
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@zapta said in Anybody using a Duet board with a Klipper SBC?:
Also, when using a Duet board with Klipper, is there an option for a user friendly touch LCD? (PanelDue or another).
I think we've seen Nero3D use PanelDue on stream, but can't say for sure it was with klipper but I do believe it is supported. However I'm partial to PITFT50 and CTP40 screens for the Pi - both were around $30 but have gone up a bit.
(Currently using OctoDash, pending the move to klipper but PITFT50 and CTP40 work great, and can VNC to the same interface, supports thumbnails. Love it, hoping klipper can match it)
Also yes, I'm hoping to settle for converting ender 3 to corexz instead of dreaming about building a switchwire. Then again, who knows, maybe I'll fall in a got of gold..
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I WAS running my RailCore with Duet2 ETH+Duex5 with Klipper firmware on a SBC. (Ethernet port on Duet2 was flakey)
Most of it is pretty easy to configure, Issue I had default power setting for the heated bed is 1, so my heated mat has come partially away from the plate.
Been struggling for a while with Klipper, quality was lacking, even though I had gone through all of tuning etc, my parts looked poor compared to running with RRF.I found the implementation of the BLTouch hit and miss with klipper/Duet
The nail in the coffin for me is when I needed to be able to do a 4 point probe which allows for aligning the X rails on the RailCore. Minimum probe points in Klipper is 9.
I asked is the bed_mesh routine could be changed to allow for a 4 point and was told it was a new feature, ask in Klipper discord. etc etc
In a nutshell was told to jog on.Have now come back to RRF.
So now I have just bought a Duet3 Mini and a toolboard which I will use to upgrade the RailCore and then use the Duet2 and Duex on a Beta printer I am building.
The Voron V0 and 2.4 300 will stay running SKR's and Klipper.
With Klipper you no longer have to run Octoprint, some people have worked hard and there is A really nice console using Moonraker backend with MainSail or other front ends.The RailCore is not a cheap printer to build and it deserves to have Duet boards fitted.
That is why the CroXY and Annex builds specify Duet boards.For clarification, this is my opinion and experience, YMMV.
Paul.
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Interesting - not sure what issues there were with your heated bed. Haven't had any weirdness like that.
as for the aligning of the x axises, not sure what you're going for, but there are several routines for adjustment, what were you looking to do? is there a baked-in RRF gcode for it?
as for annex specifying duet boards, recent BOM's switched from SKR -> Fystek S6 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oXqvtk06rsHcD06igabW3sL7RkIG_uLstGmKU9D9Gv8/edit#gid=1410625863
CROXY specifies Duet Boards.
I hope to have definitive comparisons to help out with these discussions and raise the bar for everyone!
