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Bltouch not deploy sometines it does

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  • undefined
    Tinchus @DIY-O-Sphere
    last edited by 12 Oct 2024, 11:52

    @DIY-O-Sphere Thnka for the help. I did the chnages and still the same problem. Weird thing is: M402 and M401 works 100% all the times. It is just the homeall home Z routines that fail into deploying the probe randomly (fails 80% of the times or more)
    It theory the voltage logic is automatic on version 3 of bltouch, I dont know if the duet3 has a 3 V logic or 5V, my huess is 5 because the only pin not conected to the bltouch is the 3V pin si I guess it is 5V? can someone confirm? I would try forcing the bltouch to use 5V logic just in case?
    Im using the original bltouch, with the otiginal extension cable (80 cms long), it is already twisted so it has a noise protection, either way I wrapped metallic tape around to shield it, it is ok?
    May be this cable is too long? (Still, the fact that M401 and M402 deploy and retracts the pin with no problem at all would say voltage it is not a problem)

    And just to confirm: on wiring instructions on the grn pin, I have to conect in that pin2 cables: black and orange, is that ok?

    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 12 Oct 2024, 18:19 Reply Quote 0
    • undefined
      gloomyandy @Tinchus
      last edited by 12 Oct 2024, 18:19

      @Tinchus What happens if you put the M401/M402 in your homez.g? Does it still work then?

      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 13 Oct 2024, 02:20 Reply Quote 0
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        Tinchus @gloomyandy
        last edited by 13 Oct 2024, 02:20

        @gloomyandy ot sure I understand on what position in home.z you want me to put the commands.
        from console, I can execute M401 and M402, and in 20 tries I will have 100% rate success
        Inside home.z xactly where?

        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 13 Oct 2024, 04:36 Reply Quote 0
        • undefined
          Phaedrux Moderator @Tinchus
          last edited by 13 Oct 2024, 04:36

          @Tinchus said in Bltouch not deploy sometines it does:

          Inside home.z xactly where?

          Before and after the G30 where the pin needs to be deployed and retracted.

          Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 13 Oct 2024, 17:26 Reply Quote 0
          • undefined
            Tinchus @Phaedrux
            last edited by 13 Oct 2024, 17:26

            @Phaedrux Ok, did it. It works, but as I wrote above, behaviour is really erratic. Sometimes the probe is deployed, sometiomes is doplyed like with a 2 or 3 seconds of delay, sometimes is never deplyed.
            Since the post started, I have re donde the conection crimps, I have shielded the cable, I have re donde the crimp again on the duet side conector, I have shorten the cable like -20 cms.
            I have been readin a lot of post with similar problems and from there is that I have tried all these posible solutions.
            The only one left could be noise? While probing there is no heater on, no fan on either.
            ANother observation: leaving the printer on, just IDLE, may be after 10 minutes sometimes after 1 hs, I can hear the bltouch being deplyed and inmedaitly retracted.
            I have discarded the posibility of a broken bltocuh, this one was working in the same printer.The only change was: the printer is an old, REALLY old i3 style, instead of decomision it, I though "hey, lets give it a bump, new electronics!" and I used a duet3 board I have as a spare (+sbc). But the bltocuh was connected to a ramp 1.4 arduino mega 2560 and was working really well with no problem at all.
            May be there is some campatibility issue with duet? I really dont know how much is has been tested since bltocuh is also a really "old" hardware by now? Just thinking aloud.

            Logic is 5V? I would like to confirm this before trying to force a 5V logic woirking mode on the blotouch

            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 14 Oct 2024, 13:35 Reply Quote 0
            • undefined
              droftarts administrators @Tinchus
              last edited by 14 Oct 2024, 13:35

              @Tinchus said in Bltouch not deploy sometines it does:

              I have re donde the conection crimps, I have shielded the cable, I have re donde the crimp again on the duet side conector, I have shorten the cable like -20 cms.

              Replace the entire cable to the BLTouch. If the printer is old and well-used, and the BLTouch is as well, I expect one of the wires is frayed or broken from movement somewhere along the cable run, enough to make intermittent contact. That it works sometimes indicates it's not a compatibility issue, but a connection issue.

              Ian

              Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 17 Oct 2024, 21:21 Reply Quote 0
              • undefined
                Tinchus @droftarts
                last edited by 17 Oct 2024, 21:21

                @droftarts Ok, new cable installed. looks like situation is much better now but still Im having from time to time the pin droping and then going up very quickly but not enough becuse it hits the print and the pin as bent twice... I saw in real time that: when it happened I saw the red led blink for a second. Rading and reading this could be an interference issue or problem on the 5V line, also some people installed a small capacitor between S and GRND on the bltocuh.
                Thoughts?

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • undefined
                  Phaedrux Moderator
                  last edited by 18 Oct 2024, 03:47

                  Photos of the print head and wiring run?

                  Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Oct 2024, 18:38 Reply Quote 0
                  • undefined
                    Tinchus @Phaedrux
                    last edited by 18 Oct 2024, 18:38

                    @Phaedrux Sure.
                    7e9e02cb-e5ba-4091-a0cd-6f4059096021-printhead.png
                    On the left there is bltouch an its connections marked as 1 and 2. Cable is new, and shielded with a metal tape. En the right is heatsing fan cable, thermistor and heater cartridge cable all together marked as 3

                    All cables ogether with extrudet stepper motor cable get together on top of the printhead. On the picture you see them but in reality they are all together inside a chain cable (not in the picture since I jhad to remove it in order to do test but since the chain cable is plastic, should not make any difference in fact with cable chain should be worst scenario because all cables are tigheter, still the problem exist without the chain cable.
                    Numer 4 is extruder cable, number 5 is BL touch cable, and on the right the heater cartridge cable and 6 is the hatsing fan cables. As seen , stepper motor cable is also shielded
                    8cafbb05-9693-4525-8c06-bf296328edb5-cables1.png

                    On duet side I have bltocuh conection on io7, as you can see on the last part is not shielded (does it matter). Above that there is X endstop connection and next to it the Y endstop copnnection.

                    The cable markes as SIGNAL bed is a cable that is just like 5 cms close, it si on the pictture but it is a conection from out1 that feeds a mosfet feeding the heated bed.

                    2230f7a8-e4fd-46ad-8984-c386156d319b-cablesduet.png

                    And this is the metal tape I use for shielding, I guess it works because it solved the noise problem on the flat cable of the SBC in about 8 printers using duet3 on the school.

                    4afc8685-6f3e-41ac-a176-b4ee646bd1ac-image.png

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • undefined
                      Phaedrux Moderator
                      last edited by 19 Oct 2024, 17:37

                      That wiring is something else.

                      Try connecting the bltouch directly to the board with it's short leads and have it stay close to the board and away from everything else while still upright. Do a manual Z homing and start a print and see if you still have issues with the BLtouch behaving randomly.

                      Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 19 Oct 2024, 22:35 Reply Quote 0
                      • undefined
                        Tinchus @Phaedrux
                        last edited by 19 Oct 2024, 22:35

                        @Phaedrux Can you give more specific sugestions on what oyu se as a potential wiring problem, and how you would route cables? If I use the short cable for BL, it is kind of imposible to keep other cables away since they are loner cables Right now as you can see on th pictures BL cables are tgether on the printhead bundle. I have tries to look online for cable steup and ewverything I find are cable bundles, Even if I route every cable apart, they will somehow need to close each other when they get connected to the duet.
                        Please advise on what potential problem you see on pictures so I can specifically fix that
                        Are all sure thare is no bug in actual version or if compatible is checked on latest firmware version? Today I noticed something: when pin is not deployed, and if I manually deploy iit, led on BL readcts. If I push pin up with fingers, DWC never sees the BL activation (zprobe value is always cero). If I issue an M402 pins goes up, then M401 deploys the pin and if I try to trigger it, pin is trigger but DWC nevers sees that, probe value is always cero. Then If I do a software emergency stop, the pin drops down, and if I trigger it with my fingers, goes up and gets re deployed inmediatly and I need to turn of power in order to get control again.
                        Thanks in advance

                        undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 20 Oct 2024, 11:00 Reply Quote 0
                        • undefined
                          Tinchus @Tinchus
                          last edited by 20 Oct 2024, 11:00

                          @Tinchus I have an extra observation. while trying to separate the BL cable from the resto fo the cables, electronics were off, I moved the printhead by hand and the red led of the bl touch turned on, is that ok?

                          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 20 Oct 2024, 17:22 Reply Quote 0
                          • undefined
                            Phaedrux Moderator @Tinchus
                            last edited by 20 Oct 2024, 17:22

                            @Tinchus said in Bltouch not deploy sometines it does:

                            @Tinchus I have an extra observation. while trying to separate the BL cable from the resto fo the cables, electronics were off, I moved the printhead by hand and the red led of the bl touch turned on, is that ok?

                            When you move the motors by hand they behave like generators putting a voltage back into the system which will illuminate LEDs etc. If you move them fast enough you can generate enough voltage to damage the drivers, etc.

                            Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • undefined
                              Phaedrux Moderator @Tinchus
                              last edited by 20 Oct 2024, 17:31

                              @Tinchus said in Bltouch not deploy sometines it does:

                              If I push pin up with fingers, DWC never sees the BL activation (zprobe value is always cero). If I issue an M402 pins goes up, then M401 deploys the pin and if I try to trigger it, pin is trigger but DWC nevers sees that, probe value is always cero.

                              The pin is magnetic, so if you force it up it's going to stay put magnetically, but that's not to say it's the same as triggering. It's best not to touch the pin at all as it's very fragile. And only control it with the proper M401 and M402 commands so that the state of the pin can be accurately tracked by the firmware.

                              As for the cabling, please try the setup I suggested. If the short leads of the BLtouch itself aren't long enough, try making a short extension harness. The idea is to see if the issue is cable interference or if the BLtouch itself is malfunctioning.

                              For what it's worth, I run several wires through my harness 1.5 meters to the print head including the heater, PT100, two fans, and BLTouch. All the cables are individually twisted or braided though to limit interference.

                              Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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